2-zone central heating

[vulcancontinental]

I think the reason boiler manufacturers want to tie you into product lines is that the controls manufacturers know the domestic market installer just do not want to or can combine different brands. WC is great and using one manufacturer is undoubtedly simpler.

I’m just starting to investigate the Honeywell Smile range which is opentherm and seems the closest I can find to what I want. The base system will do two zones, DHW, optimum start/stop and compensated flow as I understand. You’re not tied into the electronics of the boiler as the control unit keeps the boiler flow temp as low as possible by turning the thing off at the lowest suitable temp itself. Just got the info today and it does seem intimidating but manageable though maybe overkill for anything under 5/6 bedrooms; oh for the self-learning AQ6000.

I’m with D.H. on zoning. If you turn off sections of the house you simply create different areas of heat loss.

Don’t want to get into an argument with looney but the potential monetary savings possible in a standard house when balanced against living in comfort level for the occupants in my mind do not make the effort, cost and duplication of pipework involved when zoning worthwhile.

 

[echoes]

I think the reason boiler manufacturers want to tie you into product lines is that the controls manufacturers know the domestic market installer just do not want to or can combine different brands. WC is great and using one manufacturer is undoubtedly simpler.

Agreed. I hope a standard like opentherm becomes adopted by all, and then the take up of the technology and its benefits will spread rapidly, as will the general know-how.

 

[D_Hailsham]

I think the reason boiler manufacturers want to tie you into product lines is that the controls manufacturers know the domestic market installer just do not want to or can combine different brands.

I thought that was the rationale behind Opentherm. The problem is that UK boiler manufacturers are reluctant to adopt it.

I’m just starting to investigate the Honeywell Smile range which is opentherm and seems the closest I can find to what I want. ...though maybe overkill for anything under 5/6 bedrooms

As well as being very expensive - over £400 for a "basic" controller.

 

[looneyfitter]

According to the Veissmann installation instructions, the weather compensation module isn't compatible with external controls though, so may forgo that. I'll discuss it with the boiler installer - thanks to you all again for getting me a bit more clued-up.

You can still xone the area/s individually if you like, you just cant send a boiler enable feature back to the boiler.

The thing with oning ( the letter next to x DONT WORK) each room/s individually with a programmable timer is that they are alot more accurate than TRVS. trust me. It works well in my home.

I also have the new 200 with WC and the full Heatmiser setup, including the colour touch pad and the net monitor. It is all linked via cat5.

The John Guest stuff is made by heatmiser and re-badged. I paid just under £900 for the setup where as JG wanted nearly 2k.......

Don’t want to get into an argument with looney but the potential monetary savings possible in a standard house when balanced against living in comfort level for the occupants in my mind do not make the effort, cost and duplication of pipework involved when zoning worthwhile.

All entitled to our opinions matey

 

[vulcancontinental]

I think the reason boiler manufacturers want to tie you into product lines is that the controls manufacturers know the domestic market installer just do not want to or can combine different brands. WC is great and using one manufacturer is undoubtedly simpler.

Agreed. I hope a standard like opentherm becomes adopted by all, and then the take up of the technology and its benefits will spread rapidly, as will the general know-how.

What puzzles me is I was just looking at a boiler manufacturers package WC controls and they're advertised as using opentherm protocols but with a note underneath that they're not compatible with other manufacturers boilers?? Needs a bit more understanding on my part probably.

 

[vulcancontinental]

I think the reason boiler manufacturers want to tie you into product lines is that the controls manufacturers know the domestic market installer just do not want to or can combine different brands.

I thought that was the rationale behind Opentherm. The problem is that UK boiler manufacturers are reluctant to adopt it.

I’m just starting to investigate the Honeywell Smile range which is opentherm and seems the closest I can find to what I want. ...though maybe overkill for anything under 5/6 bedrooms

As well as being very expensive - over £400 for a "basic" controller.

It is expensive but for the 'base' controller. Basic is not really doing it justice as it's very flexible and comprehensive.

 

[echoes]

You can still zone the area/s individually if you like, you just cant send a boiler enable feature back to the boiler.

Can this be done with off-the-shelf programmable thermostats and motorised valves?

I also have the new 200 with WC and the full Heatmiser setup, including the colour touch pad and the net monitor. It is all linked via cat5.

Sounds super!

 

[D_Hailsham]

Can this be done with off-the-shelf programmable thermostats and motorised valves?

Yes. Honeywell CM927's can be configured as zoning controllers. One acts as the master and will control a zone valve and the boiler, via a separate relay box. The other ones act as slaves controlling zone valves only. You can have up to four working together.

Details are not supplied with the CM927, you have to get them from Honeywell. If you can get hold of the instructions for the CM67NG (predecessor to the CM927), it also explains how they are configured.

 

[looneyfitter]

You can still zone the area/s individually if you like, you just cant send a boiler enable feature back to the boiler.

Can this be done with off-the-shelf programmable thermostats and motorised valves?

I also have the new 200 with WC and the full Heatmiser setup, including the colour touch pad and the net monitor. It is all linked via cat5.

Sounds super!

It can be mate but i found that heatmisers linear actuators were cheaper.

If you wanted to zone individual rads, then the are small enough to connect to the rad pipework under the rad itself. That just leaves a 2 core cable to get to them so no pipework alteration at all.

Here you go . http://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/products/In%2dLine-Wax-Valve-%2d-Heatmiser-VAL%2d012.html http://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/products/4-Heating-Zones-%2b-Hot-Water-Control-Bundle.html Very cheap

I get trade discount so if you decide to go that route then let me know.

Gareth

 

[mysteryman]

Don't go for overkill!

The Honeywell AQ6000 was an excellent add-on system, and I installed many after the first one in January 1986.

But, like all add-ons, it only gave on-off control. In other words, it could not modulate the boiler at variable temperature.

Boiler manufacturers' own equipment can do this, and this is the simplest and best control. The user retains full control of room temperature by simply adjusting the control knob! The idea that you have to call the manufacturer is nonsense!

Premix gas boilers are typically at their most efficient at 30% of full load, and a good one with weather comp will be in this area most of the time.

Get a boiler with built in weather comp, and you don't have any mains wiring to do except from the fused spur.

The on-cost on a Vitodens 200-W is only modest, and full 7 day electronic timing for all channels is built in, including for the 2 optional mixed zones.

 

[Norcon]

Mysteryman you ever install the aquatrol 2000?
I think Honeywell discontinued it.

 

[vulcancontinental]

Don't go for overkill!

The Honeywell AQ6000 was an excellent add-on system, and I installed many after the first one in January 1986.

But, like all add-ons, it only gave on-off control. In other words, it could not modulate the boiler at variable temperature.

I think, looking at it closer that Smile is overkill for domestic (but then I think after looking at probably 10,000 TRV's, about 80% of which are useless as they're set at maximum behind beds, sofas, magazine racks, curtains etc are overkill to). None turn the fuel using appliance off anyway.

The AQ was OK when boilers were ON or OFF, it just shut the boiler off at as low a temp as possible when in heating mode, actually very effective. Burners have progressed a little since then.

Got any spares left? I'm dreading losing mine when it gives up the ghost.

The Aquatrol was very hard work. Did one, got headache.