Telling a person what to do and explaining why it is necessary to do it that way is a very successful way to educate the person.
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- Thread starter deadshort
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Possibly, if you are in a situation where you can get accurate feedback. But here you cannot know that the person won't simply follow the "put-the-red-wire-in-L1" instructions and pay no attention to the why.
But if you tell them where to find the information which explains the why, and require them to understand the why before they can work out the what for themselves, then that problem does not arise.
But if you tell them where to find the information which explains the why, and require them to understand the why before they can work out the what for themselves, then that problem does not arise.
Or in the majority of cases without clear, concise instructions they will just ignore the reading list and have a go anyway.
You've got your approach I've got mine. Let's just accept that people do things different ways and let the people asking advice decide which method they'd prefer.
You've got your approach I've got mine. Let's just accept that people do things different ways and let the people asking advice decide which method they'd prefer.
True - but I think the major flaw in that is that simply "sending them away with a reading list" is, I feel sure, more often than not going to fail to achieve what you would like to think it achieves. If one remains 'engaged' with someone (even over this medium), one can develop some feeling for the extent to which they are coming to understand (the 'why', as well as the 'what'), and can guide/help them accordingly.
Kind Regards, John
Their failing.
Mine requires people to acquire a necessary competence if they are to accomplish the task.
Yours does not. Yours allows and facilitates them in doing things when they are incompetent and reinforces the belief that doing electrical work on the basis of incompetence is acceptable.
So are you going to stop asking the moderators to remove posts where I have supported the ideas of understanding and competence, and are you going to stop telling people that they should not do anything to acquire competence?
Asking people to post photos so that someone can tell them which colours go in which holes teaches them nothing.
It doesn't - but if one attempts to explain why "which colour goes into which hole", they could learn. However, it's not easy - which is why I generally keep away from the light switch and ceiling rose questions!
Kind Regards, John
Then it's wrong.
But if all you show them are descriptions which they have to understand in order to know which colour goes where, then they will have to learn, and gain that understanding, if they are to successfully match colours and holes.
In your opinion.
My opinion: People should understand what they are doing.
Your opinion: Not only do people not have to understand, but they should be helped to not understand, actively told not to try and understand, and any suggestions to the contrary should be removed so that they don't see them.
I know which is the more honourable.
Your opinion: Not only do people not have to understand, but they should be helped to not understand, actively told not to try and understand, and any suggestions to the contrary should be removed so that they don't see them.
I know which is the more honourable.
In your opinion.
Yup, mine.
The superior, honourable, one.
But then that's just me, isn't it - I am superior to and more honorable than you.
The superior, honourable, one.
But then that's just me, isn't it - I am superior to and more honorable than you.
Not that superior? YOU were conned into buying sh......t on Ebay!
O' great one we are not worthy 
Kind Regards,
DS
I think people need to accept that there isn't a universal method that works for everyone. Some people come here because they've had a go, messed it up, luckily stayed alive and now their light stays on permanently. They are the kind that just need to know which wire, which hole, and be told not to do it again. They aren't going to learn from anything, reading list, hand holding etc.. There isn't really any point trying. The honourable thing to do is try and keep them alive and encourage hen to use someone competence next time.
Others may show up demonstrating a willingness to learn.. Sure, give em a reading list, explain things to them, tell them the theory and let them work out the practical.
Overwhelmingly I find with electrics, on electric forums, the general attitude to the former is that sparks are willing to help out non notifiable and minor stuff like changing a plug. The stock answer for someone wanting to carry out notifiable stuff is that they're too thick, incompetent and at risk of death, go and get an electrician. As could be seen with PreferNotToDieOBurn such advice is usually insulting enough to be ignored, causing the opposite effect to what the honourable intended
What sparks need to remember is that people routinely do mundane things that they aren't necessarily competent enough to do (drive cars, cook food etc) that puts their own and other people's lives at risk. They do these things on a daily basis. Forums the world over could be awash with answers of "you're not competent, go and pay someone who is", indeed it could be the answer to nearly everything, but it only really seems to come up in relation to electrics..
Some people need to be assigned a fisherman, some people need to be given a fish and some people need to be given a rod and instructions, there is no one size fits all.
Others may show up demonstrating a willingness to learn.. Sure, give em a reading list, explain things to them, tell them the theory and let them work out the practical.
Overwhelmingly I find with electrics, on electric forums, the general attitude to the former is that sparks are willing to help out non notifiable and minor stuff like changing a plug. The stock answer for someone wanting to carry out notifiable stuff is that they're too thick, incompetent and at risk of death, go and get an electrician. As could be seen with PreferNotToDieOBurn such advice is usually insulting enough to be ignored, causing the opposite effect to what the honourable intended
What sparks need to remember is that people routinely do mundane things that they aren't necessarily competent enough to do (drive cars, cook food etc) that puts their own and other people's lives at risk. They do these things on a daily basis. Forums the world over could be awash with answers of "you're not competent, go and pay someone who is", indeed it could be the answer to nearly everything, but it only really seems to come up in relation to electrics..
Some people need to be assigned a fisherman, some people need to be given a fish and some people need to be given a rod and instructions, there is no one size fits all.
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