A form of Democracy?

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david and julie said:
kendor said:
Damocles said:
Written words can only protect you so far before it comes to the sword.
So So True! unfortunately these days. bit like if i can't get my own way in discussions i'll bomb the hell out of you to get my way.
Just curious but what does this comment actually mean?
It means what it says on the label, if they can't get their way through discussion then they will through violence, this applies to so called legitimate as well as so called illegal bodies, governments, terrorists etc.
 
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Big_Spark

kendor said:
if they can't get their way through discussion then they will through violence, this applies to so called legitimate as well as so called illegal bodies, governments, terrorists etc.

The sad reality is that Kendor is spot on with this observation.....
 
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FWL_Engineer said:
kendor said:
if they can't get their way through discussion then they will through violence, this applies to so called legitimate as well as so called illegal bodies, governments, terrorists etc.


The sad reality is that Kendor is spot on with this observation.....
Is that sad because what i said is correct or sad that it was me saying it ;)
 
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david and julie

Or is it sad because we are being sold the EU on the grounds it will keep the peace? Surely the more voices the more chance of not getting your own way?
 
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david and julie said:
Or is it sad because we are being sold the EU on the grounds it will keep the peace? Surely the more voices the more chance of not getting your own way?
But surely the goal is not about getting your OWN way but making it work for all?
 
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david and julie

But surely the goal is not about getting your OWN way but making it work for all?
If its not about getting your own way how come the appointed commission can do what they like and why does the constitution not seek to change this anomoly?
The EU has rather a good record of keeping the peace.
Has this been put to the test yet between memberstates? I don't remember any issues that were bad enough to effect peace between members anyway. You say they have kept the peace but what have they actually done to this end.

Can I take it you Europhiles would of been happy if the UK had been become an American state under false pretences then?
 
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You don't get it, do you? America is out for America's interests. It is one single country made up of well integrated states. All the states are in the same region of the world if not neighbouring each other. The states all agreed to this because they saw quite plainly it was in their best interest to join together to stand up to the rest of the world.

European countries have a long tradition of independance, though some have been more successful at this than others. We are all seen by the US as its rivals. It much prefers we should be divided between ourselves (though adhering to the American outlook on things). Did someone say it was American policy that the UN should be reformed with only one permanent member of the security council? Guess who. They do not merely say this because they want it, but because they think it a realistic reflection of world power. I think it time to change that.

Within living memory quite a few EU states were involved in killing several million citizens of different states. This kind of behaviour frequently affects peace between those states for many generations ahead. In fact Europe has been at war throughout recorded history. Notably much reduced in the last 50 years.
 
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Damocles said:
You don't get it, do you? America is out for America's interests. It is one single country made up of well integrated states. All the states are in the same region of the world if not neighbouring each other. The states all agreed to this because they saw quite plainly it was in their best interest to join together to stand up to the rest of the world.

European countries have a long tradition of independance, though some have been more successful at this than others. We are all seen by the US as its rivals. It much prefers we should be divided between ourselves (though adhering to the American outlook on things). Did someone say it was American policy that the UN should be reformed with only one permanent member of the security council? Guess who. They do not merely say this because they want it, but because they think it a realistic reflection of world power. I think it time to change that.

Within living memory quite a few EU states were involved in killing several million citizens of different states. This kind of behaviour frequently affects peace between those states for many generations ahead. In fact Europe has been at war throughout recorded history. Notably much reduced in the last 50 years.

Again a load of total garbage Damocles.

If you were correct in your rant on America, there is no need to give up your independance of your own country to do what you say, all you have to do is form a pact similar to NATO, maybe a Europian pact which does similar for defence and world interests.

The real reasons for the EU are there in another thread where the super rich cream all the grants off that us little people pay in tax's, and hook wink silly people like yourself that the EU is the way to go for every kind of reason including yours which is blatent anti-Americanism.
 
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david and julie

Anti American carp again is it Damocles?
Did someone say it was American policy that the UN should be reformed with only one permanent member of the security council? Guess who.
I don't know did someone, other than you, say this? I haven't heard it before any chance of a link to the article?
Within living memory quite a few EU states were involved in killing several million citizens of different states. This kind of behaviour frequently affects peace between those states for many generations ahead. In fact Europe has been at war throughout recorded history. Notably much reduced in the last 50 years.
This is another perfect example of one of your claptrap answers to a straightforward question. I will repeat the question for you which was about the oft made comment regarding the EU preserving the peace in Europe since its inception.
Has this been put to the test yet between memberstates? I don't remember any issues that were bad enough to effect peace between members anyway. You say they have kept the peace but what have they actually done to this end.
I also said this, but you never replied.
Can I take it you Europhiles would of been happy if the UK had been become an American state under false pretences then?
 
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david and julie said:
But surely the goal is not about getting your OWN way but making it work for all?
If its not about getting your own way how come the appointed commission can do what they like and why does the constitution not seek to change this anomoly?
You said it above the appointed commission, that's why they do whatever they deem necessary in order to achieve the goal. whereas the above OWN way applies to the populus.
 
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david and julie

You said it above the appointed commission, that's why they do whatever they deem necessary in order to achieve the goal. whereas the above OWN way applies to the populus.

Where did I refer to anything other than the commision? You are changing my comment to suit yourself.
 
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I have just read all of this thread, well the intelligent stuff anyway, and I am intrigued. Whilst i do not agree wholeheartedly with what FWL_Engineer proposed initially, the idea of a system where MP's are not members of Political Parties and answerable to the people they represent sounds good. I think some people here have been too ready to attack the whole idea because they do not like one aspect of the post. That does not do the idea justice, nor the posters.

Perhaps it would have been better if others had given constructive critisism to the different aspects of the post and actually offered thought out objections and reasonable alternatives. I'm sorry to say some appear to have objected simply to cause an argument.
 
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david and julie

I have just read all of this thread, well the intelligent stuff anyway, and I am intrigued.
Tad condescending this Jim if you don't mind my saying, whether one agrees or disagrees with a comment has no bearing on a persons intelligence. As a matter of interest you said you didn't wholeheartedly agree with the Engineer, then offered no explanation as to why you didn't fully agree though. It is wrong for you decide what is intelligent and what is not, that is only your opinion. For all you know the poster may be far and above your own knowledge on a given subject. All opinions and comments are valid but can be ignored if you wish. There are several on here that I often disagree with but I don't consider them or their posts to be of lesser intelligence or value, they just have a different opinion to me, thats all.
 
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