Adding more Economy 7 sockets

[phatboy]

I'm in Jersey

E20 gives 20 hours a day of 'cheaper' power for your heating power only (separate consumer unit and meter tails). The rest of the usage is at a different 'standard rate'.

I am currently on 'Comfort Heat' tariff, which is equivalent to Economy 8 I think? I get 8 hours of heating only power via a separate cu and meter tails. This is broken up into 4 night hours, 2 day hours and 2 evening hours. The rest of the house gets a day rate, and a lower night rate.

I could switch to Economy 20 if I wanted, with no wiring changes.

Yes we are connected primarily to the French power grid, but have local backup generators (2 gas turbines for fast starting, powering hospital, police, and the electricity companies data centre), and then an oil fired power station that can power the whole island (40,000 households).

We currently have 1 under-sea cable to France as the second one failed last year. The replacement has been laid under the sea, and was dragged on shore in Jersey a few weeks back and is now being ducted through roads to the new sub-station.

I hope that was insightful

 

[JohnW2]

I'm in Jersey ... E20 gives 20 hours a day of 'cheaper' power for your heating power only (separate consumer unit and meter tails). The rest of the usage is at a different 'standard rate'. ... I am currently on 'Comfort Heat' tariff, which is equivalent to Economy 8 I think? I get 8 hours of heating only power via a separate cu and meter tails. This is broken up into 4 night hours, 2 day hours and 2 evening hours. The rest of the house gets a day rate, and a lower night rate.

Many thanks - the horse's mouth is always the best source!

Do you pay more for your non-heating electricity if you have E20 or 'Comfort Heat'?

Do you not have an equivalent of the type of E7 which most E7 customers have on the mainland - namely with 7 hours of installation-wide 'cheap' electricity?

Kind Regards, John

 

[phatboy]

The prices for non heating is the same for daytime usage. Nighttime usage is cheaper for Comfort Heat, but remains the same on E20.

Yes we do have E7 as well, my old flat had this. That was the usual service for electric heating until about 15 years ago when Comfort Heat was introduced. It does offer reduced price nighttime power for the whole property. It has a slightly higher daytime usage cost though which is a bit strange.

E7 seems to be delivered via a timeclock next to the meter - I remember every night at 11.15pm the loud 'bang' of the contactor in the CU closing!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I doubt it, but he may well have thought that the supply to the 'day CU' was switched such that it was got power from the 'night meter' during low-cost periods.

Can he see tails running from the night meter to the main CU?

 

[JohnW2]

Yes we do have E7 as well, my old flat had this. That was the usual service for electric heating until about 15 years ago when Comfort Heat was introduced. It does offer reduced price nighttime power for the whole property. It has a slightly higher daytime usage cost though which is a bit strange.

I'm not sure it's all that strange - it's the standard system over here. If they merely offered cheap electricity at night and standard price during the day, then everyone would have it, and everyone's bills would fall to some extent. The deal is that if you get much-cheaper-than-standard ('standard' being single tariff) night-time electricity, the quid pro quo is that you pay a bit more than 'standard' price for your daytime electricity.

E7 seems to be delivered via a timeclock next to the meter - I remember every night at 11.15pm the loud 'bang' of the contactor in the CU closing!

Yes, we have a clock next to thatmeter, and we get that lound bang (in our case about 02:30 in the summer), but I've never really understood what makes all the noise - maybe it's the clock itself. There can't (shouldn't/ needn't!) be a significant contactor in the meter, since all it's doing is switching between two counters in the meter (there is just a single set of tails coming out).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Can he see tails running from the night meter to the main CU?

Perhaps you should ask him, rather than me.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've never really understood what makes all the noise - maybe it's the clock itself. There can't (shouldn't/ needn't!) be a significant contactor in the meter, since all it's doing is switching between two counters in the meter (there is just a single set of tails coming out).

Maybe the meter has the capability, or uses a switch with the capability, to change over to a different set of tails?

I wouldn't be very surprised if a 100A contactor made a bit of noise, as it would have to be designed to switch full load, and to be robust enough to do so several thousand times.

 

[JohnW2]

Maybe the meter has the capability, or uses a switch with the capability, to change over to a different set of tails?

Possibly - but with four tails in and four tails out, it looks pretty much like a 'full house' already.

I wouldn't be very surprised if a 100A contactor made a bit of noise, as it would have to be designed to switch full load, and to be robust enough to do so several thousand times.

Yes, 100A contactors are pretty loud, and this thing is at least as loud as one of those. However, as I've said, it might possibly be the timeswitch making the noise. I'll see if I can ascertain the model number of the meter and learn about it!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Possibly - but with four tails in and four tails out, it looks pretty much like a 'full house' already.

I was just about to express my puzzlement at you writing that after you had already said

there is just a single set of tails coming out

when I remembered you've got a 3-phase supply.

The "or..." part of my theory still holds - even if your meter doesn't do it, it may use components from ones which can. And with 3-phase there are twice as many contacts, and the distinct possibility that the contactor is rated at more than 100A, so that it could be used in non-domestic installations.

I imagine that modern multi-rate meters make no noise at all, as there's nothing to physically switch. I wonder when (and I do mean when, not if) we'll read of the first case of theft of electricity by hacking the code inside a smart meter.

 

[westie101]

I would expect to see a contactor for a 3 phase E& set up.

3 phase dual rate meter (or 3 single phase dual rate)

Single phase timeswitch or teleswitch controlling the meter changeover & the contactor

3 phase contactor

 

[JohnW2]

... when I remembered you've got a 3-phase supply.

Quite so. Just as well that you remembered in time, otherwise you might well have got teased

The "or..." part of my theory still holds - even if your meter doesn't do it, it may use components from ones which can. And with 3-phase there are twice as many contacts, and the distinct possibility that the contactor is rated at more than 100A, so that it could be used in non-domestic installations.

Perfectly reasonable theorising, but seemingly wrong! Now I've identified it, my meter is one of these (click here...) (mine being a MT300) - and not a supply contactor in sight.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I would expect to see a contactor for a 3 phase E& set up.

As per my last post, you won't find one here

3 phase dual rate meter (or 3 single phase dual rate)
Single phase timeswitch or teleswitch controlling the meter changeover ...

Yep, I have both of those (3-phase dual-rate meter and single-phase timeswitch), but ...

.... & the contactor
3 phase contactor

Nope. Timeswitch can't control 'the contactor', since there isn't one to control. The timeswitch merely switches the meter between its two rates. There is no switching of the supply - hence no contactor.

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

There is no switching of the supply - hence no contactor.

Ah, just realised, no storage heaters (I think) so no need for one. Or if there are they must be separately controlled

 

[JohnW2]

There is no switching of the supply - hence no contactor.

Ah, just realised, no storage heaters (I think) so no need for one.

Quite so - which leaves me still wondering what is making the very loud 'bang'. Either there is a seriously over-engineered relay/contactor switching the meter between the two tariffs or else (which I've always suspected) it's actually the timeswitch itself.

Kind Regards, John

 

[phatboy]

I wasn't clear with the E7 setup I had, it was actually a split load cu, so the second half of the cu had storage heaters and water heater connected, and there was a contactor in the cu connected back to the electricity room via 1m t+e to the timeswitch. This was 63a rated I think, hence the loud bang.