Advanced Driving Lesson

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Well, I had my first yesterday.

It's very different!

I mean, I passed my test on 25 January 1985, and after 20 years, attitudes to the mechanics of driving have evolved.

I learnt to change up/down sequentially for everything, especially slowing down. Now I am encouraged to leave the gear lever alone until stationary.
Block changes are also now acceptable ie 1-3-5 or other combination.

Indicating when I learnt - you had to indicate even if you wanted to
f @ rt...but now, I don't even have to indicate when pulling off, provided there is no traffic behind me. Instead of sitting in a queue of traffic indicating, I now should only indicate when I get to the mouth of the junction. If I want to join the traffic flow, I shouldn't indicate and wait, but wait until I see a gap, then start indicating.

Handbrake use is different, too. In my day, I was taught to use handbrake when stationary, and that it was imperative to use it at a STOP sign. Now, the use of the h/b is very much left to the driver to decide when to use it. Bascally, my understanding of AD is not to bother if only stopped for a fraction of a minute, but to use it if in a queue.

Advanced training even allows speed in excess of the speed limit in order to get yourself out of bother.

Ghost islands I was told to treat as if they were solid (ie no driving over them), but now I am told you can drive over them if they are bounded by a broken line, but not if they are solid. Take note when pulling onto a A road or m-way - you should not cross the white markings!

I am told not to steer and change gear at the same time, which is tricky near us because there is a mini-r/about where I turn right and then immediately left. Do I stay in first all the way round until I have cleared the r/about and the left turn? Or do I set off in second, as suggested by my tutor.

On open roads, the correct approach to a corner or bend is to slow (using brakes ONLY!), select the correct gear for the speed, then accelerate round the bend. All gear changes and slowing must be completed before the bend is reached, so that all you have to think about is steering.

And all this I learnt in my first 2 hour session!

I spent most of the time getting told off for changing down when slowing (well, 20 years of habit is very hard to brake (pun intended!)).

Then things went a bit to pot when Geoff told me he was going to pretend to be the examiner - I went through an amber light when he said I had time to stop safely, I got my rear bumper caught in a box junction, and failed to use my nearside door mirror all in the space of a minute!

There's another thing - you forget to use mirrors over the years - I am reminded that having passed parked vehicles, I should glance in the n/s door mirror to check it is safe before pulling back over.

After so long, it's not easy!
 
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slightly diversifying from the topic, I've noticed attitudes changing in lots of disciplines whether for the good or bad is questionable, i notice especially on here with the electrics forum that a lot of what were considered dangerous or things to be aware of are now abandoned flagrantly! but it seems with no real backup of explanation why whereas when i was being taught these things very detailed explanations as to why certain things were done that way were given so it is hard to understand why things have changed so dramatically especially when no one seems to answer the questions that were brought up in my learning days at college to such a satisfactory way as then.
I can see it changing back in the future as a lot of things that worked over the years and then have been changed by some manger or someone in authority who have just come out of university with degrees in totally unrelated subjects decides that it can be done a more efficiently or economically way thinking they have been the first to think of it and then stand back and watch it evolve back to how it was before.
As it always has been experience is gained over time and is not something you can pickup in a condensed quick track course.
 
I signal out of habit, but my theory of why I always signal, is that if I looked in my mirror & did not see its all clear, by signaling should there be a vehicle there it is aware I intend to pull out, & if I receive a blast of the horn it could save an accident.

Signaling dose not cost anything & it will not slow your journey.

BTW I took highway code test yesterday on the internet & passed I was very pleased with myself having not read the highway code for many years.

But I had never heard of a 'Tucan Crossing'.

As far as advanced driving, the driving lessons train you how to pass the driving test not how to drive thats experience.
 
Ah, toucan crossings... they were introduced to the Highway Code 3 weeks after I got my licence. As I have said before, my instructor was very thorough and informed me of them even though I didn't need it to pass the test. He seemed to have a special preview copy of the new version, presumably instructors get all this stuff before the rest of us do.

I am considering an IAM course, a guy in my office did one and he raves about the improvement to his driving ability and has put up posters showing who to contact. Brilliant.

I agree with DIYisfun's theory on indicating. I was taught that if no-one is behind you, you can pull out without signalling. But you can't guarantee that your observation is infallible.

Driving techniques change significantly over time, but none so much as motorbikes I feel. When my dad learned, he was taught to brake with the back wheel first. When I learned I was taught to brake with the front wheel first. Reason being, suspension and brakes have come a long way, and braking with the back wheel first is now likely to lock that wheel if you are stopping in a hurry (its all down to weight transfer). Performance increases have made it damn near suicidal to get on a modern sports bike without proper training. Yes the old bikes would crack 100 given enough road, but the new bikes can get there in the length of the High Street!
 
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AdamW said:
Driving techniques change significantly over time, but none so much as motorbikes I feel. When my dad learned, he was taught to brake with the back wheel first. When I learned I was taught to brake with the front wheel first.
When did your Dad learn? I first started riding motorbikes in the seventies and then it was always the done thing to use the front brake a fraction of a second before applying the back brake but not too hard that you ended up over the handlebars just enough to stop the back wheel sliding out.
another practice was to steer slightly in the wrong direction for a second before a bend which helped the bike(especially a heavy one) to drop into the correct alignment to take the bend at a speed.
 
He would have learned in the mid-sixties. I have read in the motorcycle press that some old-school instructors hate the front-brake-first approach, perhaps it was phased in over a period of time and you got one of the more modern instructors?
 
securespark said:
On open roads, the correct approach to a corner or bend is to slow (using brakes ONLY!), select the correct gear for the speed, then accelerate round the bend. All gear changes and slowing must be completed before the bend is reached, so that all you have to think about is steering.

And all this I learnt in my first 2 hour session!

I spent most of the time getting told off for changing down when slowing (well, 20 years of habit is very hard to brake (pun intended!)).

Ohh, is that the reason why everybody here seems to be 'married' to their brakes?? I get frustrated driving on an open road were frequently cars in front of me brake when other are slowing down gently instead of easing down on the gas!

And why do most drivers take forever to make speed again after they slow down, or (even worse) come on the road just in front of you when you are driving at normal speed! Some take 3 miles to get from 30 to 60!
 
That really winds me up too! People round here seem to pull away in 5th gear, they accelerate that slowly. But then they end up going 10-15mph over the speed limit anyway :confused: Yeh, that makes sense, accelerate with all the urgency of plate tectonics, but end up speeding and thus breaking the law, not to mention increasing the risk of killing someone. If they drove properly they would probably get there a little quicker, and wouldn't hold everyone up!

What often happens on the dual carriageways is, you come off a roundabout onto a straight, overtake them, pull in, then they eventually creep past you, get in front and stop at the next roundabout. Cycle continues.

Wood, I have one word for you... Bullbars. Or cowguard. Whichever term you prefer, weld a set to the front of your car and "encourage" people to accelerate with a little more vigour! :LOL:
 
Oh, we also have those people who only drive at one speed round here. You know the type, whatever the speed limit is, they drive at 35. Doesn't matter if it is a 20, 30, 40, 50, 60. They drive at 35. It's like they have one button labelled "35mph" and another for "stop".

One of my favourite roads round here is a section of the old A1. Wide, with one straight that is absolutely gorgeous for overtaking. You can see clearly for nearly a mile ahead, a slight downhill too so it makes your car seem just that bit quicker ;) Quite often I'll be driving down there behind a slowcoach. I don't care, because I know the straight is coming up. So I wait, and do one of those wonderful overtaking manoeuvres that makes you glad for country lanes. :D But a bit further down the road is a sleepy village with a 30 limit. Low and behold, whilst I am "pootling" through said village the earlier car invariably catches up and sits on the back bumper. All because they haven't yet figured out their car is capable of more than one speed! Although I have seen police hiding in the side roads there recently, that'll learn 'em! :evil:

Why is overtaking so much more satisfying on a country lane than a motorway? :LOL:
 
Mad keen on bikes early sixties, self taught, avidly read mo-cyle news and the sporting mags ... front brake first ... get the weight shift tickle the back brake ... That is why the front brake was always so much bigger. ... There were some quickies about !! Triumph Tiger 110, Bonneville, the various 'Clubmans' ... The japs were arriving with the 250 Honda Dream square headlights n'all ... the smiles were soon wiped, only to return with the horizontally split sump and lack of dripping oil !!

Used to look in mirror and id the make of following car ... But no changing down - engine braking -- cannot go with that, mechanical sympathy dictates, to me, spread the load.
But then I am sure the AD is about other things. .. must be good the cops only kill about 30 or so a year after that sort of training .. 'course they do have blue lights and sirens ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Diyisfun said:
As far as advanced driving, the driving lessons train you how to pass the driving test not how to drive thats experience.

Do you mean that ordinary driving lessons teach you how to pass the test? If so, I agree. AD lessons teach you not only exactly what the examiner is looking for, but the techniques you should adopt for the rest of your life.

What I can't understand is why they don't teach the same techniques from the off...

When I get through the AD, I'd like to get trained in high speed car control......not that I want to drive like faeces off a spade, but just to understand the physics and dynamics of skids and be able to tame an out of control vehicle.
 
securespark said:
When I get through the AD, I'd like to get trained in high speed car control......not that I want to drive like faeces off a spade, but just to understand the physics and dynamics of skids and be able to tame an out of control vehicle.

Definitely a good thing.

If you have the skills to successfully drive at 100 in a 60 limit, presumably driving at the speed limit would be safer than if you didn't have the training?

One of my favourite "Police camera" TV moments was when they were following a police force that operated Scoobiedoo Imprezas amongst its carpool. Seeing an Impreza with blue lights motor away down twisty country lanes from a 3-litre Omega camera car was something that has to be seen to be believed! Although in their hands they would have probably caught anyone short of a WRC driver, few people would have the skills to handle such a car anywhere near the limit of its ability.
 
Thinking about the "new thinking" on car driving, I can't help thinking that I think it's unthinkable... Think I'm right? :confused:

What I mean is that I was taught to go down the gears when slowing down, which seems to make sense to me. You are always in the right gear for the speed, whereas with the method I'm being taught now, I could be approaching a traffic queue or junction from whatever speed, then slowing down using exclusively the brakes - if speed needs to be picked up again, I'm in the wrong gear (could be in fourth at 10 mph for example)and will have to change down anyway. Also, at some point I would be reaching the stage where I have to slip the clutch to prevent stalling - which seems to me to occur earlier than if I'm in a lower gear.

It just seems to me to be overall a lazier style of driving - does anyone agree?
 
Well, recalling my driving lessons (I was taught the same approach you are learning, i.e. slow down using just the brakes), the reason is:

When you are changing gear you have the clutch pushed in. When you have the clutch pushed in you are not in full control as you are coasting (not to mention you have just one hand on the wheel). Because modern engines are so adept across the whole rev range, shiftpoints are not so critical as I am told they were before the advent of ECUs.

In 4th gear, engine idle speed is equivalent to 10-15mph in most cars. Thus you don't need to push the clutch in until you get below that speed, in which case you are pretty much stopped anyway (you will only be a carlength or two from your intended stopping location).

The only exclusions to this I was taught:

1) if you are driving towards a set of traffic lights in 5th gear, and you aren't certain they will still be green when you reach the junction, it is preferable to shift down to 4th to improve engine braking. Obviously only if the road speed is suitable for 4th, you wouldn't do it at 60 or 70! :LOL:

2) in an emergency stop you should open the clutch almost instantaneously after applying the brakes, as brake pressure is maximum and engine braking is neither required nor desired.
 
AdamW said:
Well, recalling my driving lessons (I was taught the same approach you are learning, i.e. slow down using just the brakes), the reason is:

When you are changing gear you have the clutch pushed in. When you have the clutch pushed in you are not in full control as you are coasting (not to mention you have just one hand on the wheel).

Coming back to my 'pet-hate': suppose you're driving along nicely within max speed, say 60. In front of you cars are slowing down to turn of main road. In your approach I would now brake only using brakes, not shifting gear. My speed is now 30 or 40, I'm still in 5th gear, road is clear in front of my (all cars directly in front of me have turned of the road).
How on earth am I going to speed up again fast enough before the rest behind me is blinking, honking etc????

If I had slowed down, with shifting back gradually to such a gear I would know will get me speed right away, I will be less a Pest on the road ;))
 
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