Advice on removing wall

[Rick888]

i have a wall between the kitchen and diner i want to take out, the wall runs front to back and the joists run side to side, all upstairs are stud walls,
ive had the floor up upstairs and thejoists are resting on the wall i want to remove.

ive had a quote and the builder said it might need one and might not, did he just not want to tell me so i dont remove i myself. or does he just not know,

i want to do it myself (im a sparky ) but have mates in the trade, the quote we have is good but if it needs a steel it wont be flush, and ideally id like it flush,

is there anyway of kjowing if its a supporting wall?

 

[Newboy]

Well if the joists are resting on it then it's supporting them!

By your description it's load bearing and will need something in it's place to support the 1st floor.

 

[^woody^]

You get it flush by putting it in the floor, not below it. This relies on the steel being less deep than the floor.

 

[Rick888]

Well if the joists are resting on it then it's supporting them!

By your description it's load bearing and will need something in it's place to support the 1st floor.

yeah i thought so, just wondered why the builder that came round gave me 2 quotes one with the steel and one without, surely he would know

 

[Newboy]

Well I guess he's seen the job.

Be interested to know what the non-steel quote said.

 

[Rick888]

You get it flush by putting it in the floor, not below it. This relies on the steel being less deep than the floor.

i have 7.5'' joists surely wont be as tallas that, it was suggested about bolting 2 wooden joists together and cutting them in with joist hangers

 

[Rick888]

Well I guess he's seen the job.

Be interested to know what the non-steel quote said.

remove wall from kitchen to dining room

plaster ceiling and chases from wall


the second part is

if the wall is supporting the joists then there would be an extra charge od £180 to supply and install the beam

 

[^woody^]

Was it a suggestion based on calculations of the span and loads involved, or based on the timber being £8.50 each down the merchants?

You presumably are aware that this type of work is notifiable to building control?

 

[Doggit]

He should have worked out that it's a load bearing wall by the way the joists run on to it, and if there's a corresponding wall above it. He's either hedging his bets, and once he's started the job he'll then tell you it needs a steel. What did the builder say about the building control notice? Find someone else.

As to the 2 wooden beams idea, Woody will know better than me, but are they suggesting a flitch beam where there's a steel plate in between. This would allow you to set one beam in place, fit the joist hangers, and then set the metal plate in place, and finally the second beam.

How long is this wall.

 

[Rick888]

He should have worked out that it's a load bearing wall by the way the joists run on to it, and if there's a corresponding wall above it. He's either hedging his bets, and once he's started the job he'll then tell you it needs a steel. What did the builder say about the building control notice? Find someone else.

As to the 2 wooden beams idea, Woody will know better than me, but are they suggesting a flitch beam where there's a steel plate in between. This would allow you to set one beam in place, fit the joist hangers, and then set the metal plate in place, and finally the second beam.

How long is this wall.

i thought it was load bearing but when the builder gave 2 quotes i questioned myself, also another builder said the joists could span the whole floor as upsairs are all stud walls and not brick or breeze,

yes the one with the steel inside

the wall is 3.1m long, ill try to get a pic of the floorplan in a second, also theres a serving hatch in the wall, not sure if this is helpful to know

 

[Doggit]

Can you lift a floorboard upstairs to see if the joists go under the wall.

 

[Rick888]

Can you lift a floorboard upstairs to see if the joists go under the wall.

under which wall? they go over the kitchen wall stud walls above

 

[Doggit]

So it looks as though they are going side to side, and just resting on the wall; in which case you couldn't get the ceiling flush without supporting the ceiling either side of the wall, and then cutting through the joists. I suspect you'd need to take down the ceilings so you have a clear view of everything, so possible, but tricky and maybe not advisable

 

[Rick888]

i was goimg to lift the boards above and take some ceiling down and cut through the joists

think i might just pay this builder and it will be under the joists and done

 

[noseall]

The joists appear to span the whole length of the room and may be able to carry the whole span without intermediate support. Or may not.
Most posters reading this thread thought that there were two sets of joists joining onto this wall. Presumably there is only the one set of joists, i.e. they don't appear to overlap on the wall?

You need to have an S.E. (or a qualified bod) measure the section size of the joists, look at the loadings and decide whether the joists will span the whole width of the room without support.