Africa

[raebhoop]

Having just heard another Ad on the box for starving kids in Africa. I just wondered about what people think is the answer to this problem that has been with Africa for decade after decade, and seems unsolvable.

When I was younger there were stories coming out of India and China about millions starving.There are still many people in these and other states that are still on the breadline...But in general the majority of the populations of these countries are now doing very well. With thousands of new industries and exports worldwide.

Their standard of living is in general improving in leaps and bounds.Is it due to their governments?....India,the largest democracy in the world,and China the largest communist state.

So what is it with Africa?...Unlike India and China many different countries on one continent....some continually at war or in turmoil.
But is this the reason for their constant poverty or are there other factors?
Is it the attitude of the Africans themselves...their work ethic...or something else? Why after all this time and Billions of dollars of aid are they still in the same boat?

My own feelings?....At the time of Bob Geldof and Band Aid in '84 the population of Ethiopia was 33.5 million....this year...84.32 million.

At that birthrate our own population in the UK would now be around 130 million.

What are your opinions?

 

[AronSearle]

the answer to this problem

Africa's problems are for Africa to fix, nothing we can or "should" do will help.

Any money given to Africa only props up the dictators that cause the problems. Trade embargoes only hurt, invasion is not practical or moral.

China the largest communist state.

China is no longer communist, what rock have you been living under?

Is it the attitude of the Africans themselves...their work ethic...or something else? Why after all this time and Billions of dollars of aid are they still in the same boat?

Greed and corruption amongst it's leaders, something Africans have to solve.

My own feelings?....At the time of Bob Geldof and Band Aid in '84 the population of Ethiopia was 33.5 million....this year...84.32 million.

At that birthrate our own population in the UK would now be around 130 million.

Bit silly to suggest overpopulation as a cause, when you previously point out china (with a HUGE population) has "fixed" it.

Zimbabwe alone could feed the whole of Africa if it hadn't dumped commercial farming when kicking out the white man, for small substance farming (inspired by communism but strictly speaking not communism).

 

[raebhoop]

Are any of you on here capable of a proper debate without throwing insults?
China is still communist whether you like it or not.

I should know better than try to engage in conversation on here...

No wonder new topics are few and far between.

 

[chapeau]

You asked for opinions and you received one. My opinion is that China never made it as far as communist, and it's now more capitalist than we are.

Re Africa.

I don't think us lot living in Europe can really understand the place so cannot really have a valid opinion. Africa is a brilliant place to visit, Everywhere is less than an overnight flight away, no jetlag. Though the typical tourist destinations like Kenya and South Africa are to be avoided, head elsewhere.

I was struck by the opinion of some taxi driver (taxi, ha ha, he was an out of work fellow driving a death trap touting for business on the side of the road) in Lusaka recently. Anyway I got in then after negotiating a fare had to tell him where it was. Driver said that he wished for white rule again. As he said "The whites treated us like dogs but at least we had law and order".

Funny old world.

 

[raebhoop]

Thank you for your comments...To my mind Chaiman Maos China was intended to be a communist state.Whether of the ideal of Marx or not is another matter.
The modern China is certainly based on a capitalist system and very successful too...But doesn't alter the fact that their system is by no means democratic.

I bow before your greater knowledge of Africa, having never been there.

 

[chapeau]

Ah, but I don't claim greater knowledge than you. In fact I said we don't understand the place.

For example what we call corruption is what they call patronage.

However your Chinese are there in abundance now and it will be interesting to see how that pans out. They'll probably stuff the place up in the same way the Europeans did.

 

[AronSearle]

Are any of you on here capable of a proper debate without throwing insults?

"what rock have you been living under" an insult?

You big baby.

China is still communist whether you like it or not.

The modern China is certainly based on a capitalist system and very successful too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

 

[joinerjohn]

I think the only answer is EDUCATION. You see these women on the news reports holding near dead babies in their arms. The reporter tells us, this child will be lucky to see the next day. Then you realise the mother is already pregnant with the next baby destined to die.
A friend of mine went on the VSO service and helped a village in Africa, plant a field of beans/ peas (or something like that). Overnight, the villagers had dug the seeds up and had made soup with them.

 

[peaps2]

Are any of you on here capable of a proper debate without throwing insults?

"what rock have you been living under" an insult?

You big baby.

China is still communist whether you like it or not.

The modern China is certainly based on a capitalist system and very successful too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder[/QUOTE]

Probably the same rock you live under. China is a communist run country.

Your arrogance has no limit.

 

[chapeau]

A friend of mine went on the VSO service and helped a village in Africa, plant a field of beans/ peas (or something like that). Overnight, the villagers had dug the seeds up and had made soup with them.

Well if the story is true (and I'm trying to work out the logistics of digging up a field of seeds) it just shows how stupid the VSO is.

Re Education. Spent a week with a black african medical doctor out there, very clever chap. He was telling me how he was asked to go back to his home village as a successful villager who became a doctor and teach the villagers simple things like 'use condoms to stop HIV' etc.

He had two problems.

1) The (then) US Bush administration had an agressive 'just say no to sex' ideology campaign. So much so that any western charity that promoted 'safe sex with condoms' was unable to access US cash or resources. So they didn't.

2) The locals didn't believe black men in authority. They wanted to hear the message from a white doctor in order to believe it.

Funny old world.

 

[Whitespirit66]

So what is it with Africa?

Africans.

I could have given you the pc hogwash answer, but decided to give you the truth. No doubt the truth will soon be erased by moderators.

You hit the nail on the head. For centuries, Indians, Chinese and Africans lived in grinding poverty. The Indians and Chinese have now got to grips with the modern world, and are exploiting it for all it's worth.

Back in Africa, they're still hacking each other to death, constantly warring and producing unsustainable populations. It's a different mentality and it prevents them from moving forward and getting their act together. Of course, all of this is blamed on the white man by stupid, hand-wringing lefties who will twist the truth at every opportunity. For example, Rhodesia was a prosperous country that provided food surpluses and traded with the world. Now it's called called Zimbabwe and in a desperate state.

 

[safara]

Education and taking control of it's resources.

Education will go a long way for the up and coming generations to play on the world stage without being exploited. Yes, there is corruption, nepotism and patronage rife throughout those in power in Africa. But this is the case the world over, it is just that in Africa it is more blatant.

Taking control of it's resources is key. For too long the western world has used Africa as a resource farm. This has abated of late, and now it is primarily the East knicking the resources.

What needs to happen is for these raw resources to never leave the continent as raw products. End products should be refined/manufactured in Africa, by Africans for export. Adding HUGE value, job creation, long term sustainability etc etc.

Much much more to say on this topic, tis the land of my birth, but you get the gist.

 

[joe-90]

Re Education. Spent a week with a black african medical doctor out there, very clever chap. He was telling me how he was asked to go back to his home village as a successful villager who became a doctor and teach the villagers simple things like 'use condoms to stop HIV' etc.

Then you woke up.

 

[pred]

I think this mentality is not confind to Africa, there were about 30 of us sat in a canteen of a large company waiting for trailers to be loaded for delivery, this black guy starts bragging how one of his tarts is having his baby, this is about the eleventh, so i enquire who is paying for these illigitiment chuldren, he replied with a big grin on his face that he chucks them a few bob now and then, so i answer so its us, the tax payer footing the bill, his retort was that in later life he could have his children and grandchilren around him, me brain in neutral mouth in overdrive state, dont be daft thats what they do in Africa, well it went a bit quiet for a while but most of the other drivers agreed with my sentiments, now this guy was born and bred in England yet still had this mentality.

 

[AronSearle]

Probably the same rock you live under. China is a communist run country.

Your arrogance has no limit.

China stopped being communist years ago.

Just because the unelected ruling body retains authoritarian control and calls itself the communist party, doesn't mean it is.

You only have to look at the droves of corrupt rich capitalists in china to know it's communism is a façade.

Ff'n hell I thought this was common knowledge!