Antsy attitudes

[Chri5]

Why do certain members chose to make things personal and start being contrary and difficult on responses to posts ?

There is a group of you that have become argumental with each other which does a disservice to

* The community
* Yourselves
* The quality of the response to a post

The forum has a reputation for decent information and advice and that still continues.

Some forums have a reputation for bickering, sourness, disdain and they tend not to be popular. I'd hate it if this site went the same way.

I'm all for debate, disagreement and alternative thoughts and methods, but it needs to be de personalised and has absolutely no need to become rude, insulting, petty or personal.

Could we all not try to keep this place as a place to visit, contribute and enjoy ?

Maybe the admin should make a DIYNot "Ringside" section for all that feel it's necessary to vent aghast.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I disagree with all the above post

 

[wingcoax]

You're both wrong.

 

[zacha4]

Have to agree recently

Someone asks a simple question, instead of getting a straightforward answer it turns into a rant about you shouldn't be doing that, ur not qualified, u need to inform building control, u need to get someone in who knows what they are doing because you obviously don't etc etc

We all know about part P and what a farce it is, they is no need to ram it down some ones throat when they ask a simple question. It is up to them to do whats right, not for you to bash them into submission

People need to get off there high horses and treat people with respect, eg treat them as you would want to be treated

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Someone asks a simple question, instead of getting a straightforward answer it turns into a rant about you shouldn't be doing that, ur not qualified, u need to inform building control, u need to get someone in who knows what they are doing because you obviously don't etc etc

You've conflated two issues there.

Regarding competence, it is an unfortunate but undeniable fact that we do see people asking questions here who clearly are nowhere near the level of competence that they should be to do the job safely - nothing to do with needing to inform LABC, and nothing to do with being qualified.

Different people draw their competency line in different places, but everybody draws one somewhere, and in the most egregious examples the verdict is usually unanimous.

We all know about part P and what a farce it is

Actually that isn't true, there are still people out there who haven't heard of it.

But yes, it is a farce, however people do need to be made fully aware of what it requires so that they can make in informed decision on what they want to do about it.

They do need to be asked what they said when they notified, because there are councils out there who tell applicants to say that the work will be done by a registered electrician, and there are people who put that on their submission without thinking it true, and there are people who end up here with tales of woe about them doing the wiring in their extension and now LABC won't give them their completion certificate.

I don't believe that the information on Part P is rammed down people's throats, nor is it used to bash them into submission.

 

[zacha4]

Point taken - I will however say out of all the forums on this server the electrics one seem the least friendly and least helpful of them

Come on sparks you cant have a bricky or chippy having the moral high ground

 

[wingcoax]

240v up the wrong way will soon topple them

 

[c128]

The forum has a reputation for decent information and advice and that still continues.

Some forums have a reputation for bickering, sourness, disdain and they tend not to be popular. I'd hate it if this site went the same way.

Not wishing to tread on anyone's toes, and I seldom post here even if I track it regularly, but this forum is probably one of the most aggresive of all that I follow...and I do follow about 20 or so, on various subjects. I guess some would argue that it's to do with the importance of the subject matter, but personally I doubt it . Not that I've not personally found good advice here, but the general anonymity of the interweb forum shows up in some amazing condescension and aggresiveness displayed by some regular contributors...

I can't say that I've seen it change all that much in the few years I've followed it, having said that.

 

[Chri5]

I've been here long enough to comprehend why certain people offer the responses that they do.

Due to the rules within the industry people do have to be advised not just on the technical side, but also the regulatory elements- it's unavoidable.

The same applies with posts where people are showing ignorance of the requirements or blatant disregard of such requirements- these will also inflame view points. As professionals within the sector we are obliged to work to such requirements, so maybe you can understand why we then expect posters of questions, issues, dilemmas to do the same.

I more bothered about the current infighting and witch finder general type comments that have become all too evident in recent weeks amongst a few good guys who really should know better.

 

[1john]

I think it is important that posters are aware of as many legal and regulatory issues as we can muster. alot of people seem to be oblivious to part P and sometimes the regs. If we can advise people to follow the law in regards to part P then that can't be a bad thing as their work will or should end up being inspected and tested, which is the best way of it being verified. If every poster also fully complies with the regs and takes advice from guidance notes / on site guide etc then at some stage in the future it makes the process of anyone else working on the installation alot simpler.

I personally am not a fan of part P, i beleive if has cause the market to be over saturated with 'five second sparkies' with minimal knowledge and zero experience.

Also, apologies if i have ever offended anyone.

 

[c128]

The same applies with posts where people are showing ignorance of the requirements or blatant disregard of such requirements- these will also inflame view points. As professionals within the sector we are obliged to work to such requirements, so maybe you can understand why we then expect posters of questions, issues, dilemmas to do the same.

To a pont, I agree, and I'm not singling out anyone in particular. However...I've not personally always been quite so polite on internet forums but, a while ago, I basically decided I'd reply in general only as I would face-to-face, regardless of how someone else behaves - that's kind of, ehh, normal . Now...it may be that a lot of the regular posters on here do talk to customers, colleagues, friends and family etc. in the way they do on this forum but, somehow, I doubt that. The best forums, to my mind, are the ones that are both informative and friendly - this forum is mostly the first but, in my view, is a bit of a stretch from the second.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

hhmmm, this forum

friendly or aggressive?

i guess theres only one way to find out:-

fffffffffffiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttttttttttt !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ColJack]

I guess some would argue that it's to do with the importance of the subject matter, but personally I doubt it

the problem is that while electricity and deaths from it are not as big and flashy as a gas explosion, installing it worng is every bit as lethal if not more so.

unlike the gas fitters, we don't have the goverment telling people not to do their own electrics and making them use registered installers, so we get joe the idiot asking how to change his consumer unit and if he can use speaker wire to feed his new shed at the bottom of his 400ft garden..

 

[c128]

I guess some would argue that it's to do with the importance of the subject matter, but personally I doubt it

the problem is that while electricity and deaths from it are not as big and flashy as a gas explosion, installing it worng is every bit as lethal if not more so.

Absolutely - I accept that completely, and there's nothing wrong with telling someone they're doing something wrong, shouldn't attempt something etc., with an explanation. However...do you think that a condescending or dismissive response on this forum really "educates" anyone in this respect or deters them from doing something they would otherwise do when perhaps they shouldn't? I suppose it might do, but I personally doubt it, and I suspect the motives of people that seem to default to replying in that way. Threads often snowball, unnecessarily in my view, into tit-for-tat responses triggered by simple rudeness.

That's another odd thing about this forum though, in my view, and links to what you've said above... Trivial things aside, at some point or other a value judgement is made about someone's competence to do a task/job whatever they're asking about, and advice may or may not be given on that basis - typically how a response is given is also made based on someone's deduced competence and how they respond.

In the end though - that assessment is impossible of a stranger on an internet forum, isn't it?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

but on a more serious note.

I personally think that some people here, although they may be factually correct, really need to get over themselves, quite a lot.
There really is no need for the repetitious bleating that can be witnessed on a lot of the more re-current themes. But, I guess thats what makes some people happy, so expect more of the same - time and time and time again

You can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink
- wise words, not embraced by all here.

I suppose some people do like the anonimity of the web, allowing them to be some one they are not in real life. I think that if the guilty ones were like that in the flesh, they would probably have a strong relationship with their dentist

I doesn't help the situation when some DIYer's have a dangerously vague concept of whats going on with electrics and think that any attempts by sparkies here to deter them from doing their proposed electrical work is solely driven by disgruntled bitterness. I can't speak for everyone here but on my part, thats not the case. I don't mind helping someone do something correctly, if it is legal/advisable to do it. But equally, as a fee paying, trained, experienced spark, why would I actively assist someone to break the law which I abide by, whilst taking money out of my pocket at the same time?

Some DIYer's don't want real advice, they just want to hear someone say 'go on, mate, sounds like a great idea' to get the monkey off their back whilst saving a few quid. Its easy to see why this touches a nerve with a few. You can usually tell the difference between some one who has not got clue number1 and should never touch anything made from copper, someone who has a logical approach to a task but may not have any direct experience, someone who has good knowledge and is here just to 'fill in the blanks' and someone who may know more than the rest of us put together.
I think the advice often given not only relates to the task at hand, but the type of person asking the question.

I do not think Part P is very clever at all, but at the time that i write this, it has some basis in law and (only IMO) anyone who chooses to ignore this is foolish and potentially setting themselves up for a headache some way down the road.

I'm indifferent to the selective use of recessed downlights.
I don't waste too much of my time trying to convert those who don't want converting. I do, however, sometimes find it funny how much effort others will go.