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any electricians out there going to take part p? is it worth i ask? 
any news on part p
- Thread starter sparky24seven
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sparky24seven said:any electricians out there going to take part p? is it worth i ask?
It's not an exam, so you can't exactly 'take' it (
). It's a new section (approved document) of the Building Regulations, which is a statutory instrument. So, in law, you have no option but to comply. Is it worth registering with a self-certification scheme? If you intend to stay within the law, yes it is because otherwise you will need to add the Local Authority Building Control fees to every notifiable job - and if you're a spark that's practically every job you do.
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i think the fees are very costly
have u thought about this The ODPM hope all us electrician will join the scheme but if we hold back how will it be able to work. just think
building inspectors do not know about electrics let alone test and inspection. they are banking on all of us to join a scheme. How will they cope if we dont? why should we pay every year to be accessed? what other trades or professions are accessed every year?
have u thought about this The ODPM hope all us electrician will join the scheme but if we hold back how will it be able to work. just think
building inspectors do not know about electrics let alone test and inspection. they are banking on all of us to join a scheme. How will they cope if we dont? why should we pay every year to be accessed? what other trades or professions are accessed every year?
it depends on where you are working
commercial is non-notifiable afaict
and small jobs on domestic frankly its unlikely building control will notice if you decide to "go cowboy"
the only places part P will have real effect are major alterations to houses and it may well be with theese that the electrical plans will just be notified with the rest of the plans for the building work
commercial is non-notifiable afaict
and small jobs on domestic frankly its unlikely building control will notice if you decide to "go cowboy"
the only places part P will have real effect are major alterations to houses and it may well be with theese that the electrical plans will just be notified with the rest of the plans for the building work
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My guess is that it will slowly creep in over many years, as word spreads, and people twig that when they buy a house that's got a new kitchen, or extension, they can ask for proof that the electrics were "properly" done, or force the seller to have it inspected at his cost.
There's also the much vaunted "sellers pack".
Your average punter already knows, if he cares to think about it, or thinks to care about it, that there are registered electricians (NICEIC, ECA) and non-registered, and he probably believes that the former give him a reasonable chance of avoiding cowboys. And then he goes for a cheap cash-in-hand job by a bloke from the pub. Part P won't change that.
There's also the much vaunted "sellers pack".
Your average punter already knows, if he cares to think about it, or thinks to care about it, that there are registered electricians (NICEIC, ECA) and non-registered, and he probably believes that the former give him a reasonable chance of avoiding cowboys. And then he goes for a cheap cash-in-hand job by a bloke from the pub. Part P won't change that.
b-a-s said:
I'm not sure about that one? It depends how much they want to buy my property, which wil be for sale next year. If they want a structural survey done then they pay for it, not me. I will probably feel the same about an electrical inspection.
shaggy said:
As b-a-s has mentioned the government has been banging on for years about introducing a so-called Sellers Pack. At the moment the rule is caveat emptor which places the emphasis on the buyer to ensure the property he is buying is actually what he thinks it is and not made out of papier mache and string. The idea is that all properties will eventually have a form of log book that passes from owner to owner, detailing what alterations/extensions/etc have been carried out along with suitable certification. It will be the owner's responsibility to maintain these records, which includes renewing certification for electrical installations and the like.
This has nothing to do with Part P, of course. P is simply a way of bringing domestic electrical installations into line with all the other controlled work - little of which is ever actually notified, of course - and providing a degree of legal retribution for occupiers put at risk by non-compliant work.
Of course it will take time and of course the cowboys will continue to operate, but the main thing is that what they do will no longer be just dangerous it will actuall be illegal.
Guess the old buyers/sellers market thing will operate. You'd better hope that next year prices are not falling, and repo bargains are not available...shaggy said:
There was some talk of requiring sellers to get a survey done. This immediately became a problem because mortgage companies said they would still require their own valuation survey.
Then there is the question of how good a survey. If an electrical inspection was as good as most building society inspections, then it is only going to tell you that the lights come on if you flick the switch.
And then there is the issue of the vendor having to fork out say £500 for a survey which will be out of date in 6 months before there is even a hint of a buyer. Some people will certainly be put off by this. It is quite different to put your house on the market to test the water, and having to pay up front to do it.
Then there is that questionnaire the other peoples solicitor sends you nowadays. If there are any embarrassing questions, you have a choice of admitting to noisy neighbours, the foundations threatening to collapse into that well which the surveyor never spotted, or that bit of DIY wiring you did, Or just forgetting it. They have to prove you did something wrong if they want any money back.
Then there is the question of how good a survey. If an electrical inspection was as good as most building society inspections, then it is only going to tell you that the lights come on if you flick the switch.
And then there is the issue of the vendor having to fork out say £500 for a survey which will be out of date in 6 months before there is even a hint of a buyer. Some people will certainly be put off by this. It is quite different to put your house on the market to test the water, and having to pay up front to do it.
Then there is that questionnaire the other peoples solicitor sends you nowadays. If there are any embarrassing questions, you have a choice of admitting to noisy neighbours, the foundations threatening to collapse into that well which the surveyor never spotted, or that bit of DIY wiring you did, Or just forgetting it. They have to prove you did something wrong if they want any money back.
I doubt if the seller's pack will ever happen. Various governments have talked about a lot of things that never happen; it's just another dream.
As regards house prices falling, it doesn't matter if you're buying another 'cos the price of that one falls as well. I've done ok out of repo bargains; let's have some more.
As regards house prices falling, it doesn't matter if you're buying another 'cos the price of that one falls as well. I've done ok out of repo bargains; let's have some more.
Having been involved with inspection .. albeit in Engineering Industry ... How will sparks cope if not into self-certification ?
I mean, with interpretation of the loose worded regulation.
We always got to the 'intent' of a requirement or drawing by dialogue and agreement .... What happens if you are not self certifying ... If the Inspector turns the job down ? Will you be there with him to enter into dialogue ? (Wasteful of time .. cannot be an option surely ) Or will it be long range by phone ? Or have I got it all wrong ?
P
I mean, with interpretation of the loose worded regulation.
We always got to the 'intent' of a requirement or drawing by dialogue and agreement .... What happens if you are not self certifying ... If the Inspector turns the job down ? Will you be there with him to enter into dialogue ? (Wasteful of time .. cannot be an option surely ) Or will it be long range by phone ? Or have I got it all wrong ?
P
With normal building inspections you would be there to discuss the requirements with the inspector. If not always up for negotiation they can be very helpful and suggest alternative approaches if you treat them nicely. Site visits can often be as short as a few minutes. In any case the building inspector is an officer with authority and should be impartial.
But in the case of electrics the requirement for testing and certification is likely to be beyond the scope of Building Control so it is expected that they will engage a locally approved firm to inspect, test and certify. In this case the installer doesn't necessarily need to be present and I would expect a tester would prefer that he wasn't - that way he can fail an install without having to face up to a fellow spark!!
As you suggest, if Part P actually gets enforced, self-certification is the only realistic route for the smaller spark.
But in the case of electrics the requirement for testing and certification is likely to be beyond the scope of Building Control so it is expected that they will engage a locally approved firm to inspect, test and certify. In this case the installer doesn't necessarily need to be present and I would expect a tester would prefer that he wasn't - that way he can fail an install without having to face up to a fellow spark!!
As you suggest, if Part P actually gets enforced, self-certification is the only realistic route for the smaller spark.
As the last post was in 2004 they probably worked it out by now
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