Anyone know about servicing gas powered nailers?

[cjard]

Playing with my new toy it was fine for the morning, left it hanging on a joist for a few hours then in the afternoon it wouldn't fire..

Battery was OK, firing pin in correct location, gas still good and enough nails in the magazine. It was behaving exactly like my brother's bostitch (mine's a hitachi but apparently same gun) - you push the head into the work, squeeze the trigger and no fire.. lift the gun away from the work and it runs the fan as though it has fired but even repeating the cycle several times, no dice. Pulled the gas cell and squirted it a few times - it's ok. Back in the gun, in place as per instructions, I manually squeeze it to load a shot of gas, do the gun back up and it fires one nail, then stops again..

.. so i'm thinking at this point that it's a gas mixture issue - 2 squeezes (one of mine and one the gun did) will fire, but one squeeze wont.. This gun is brand new, fired less than 200 nails and hasn't reached its service interval for even a "dustier than a storm in the sahara" site let alone the relatively clean one i'm on

Fiddling around a bit more I notice that the plastic triangle that the gas cell mates with (part number 28 in this picture: http://www.toolpartspro.com/image/GF33PT/GF33PT-bostitch-PB.png) can be rotated left and right. It makes me wonder if it's like the little adjuster on the front of a cigarette lighter that varies the flame height. I try it all the way to the left, no fire. All the way to the right and the gun starts firing nail after nail, so I start backing it off to the left until the gun stops firing, then back to the right a tad so it starts firing again.

I don't find anything about this in the manual, troubleshooting or servicing guide - just wondering if anyone here knows about it and whether it really is an adjuster that varies the gas amount or was it just coincidence?

Bizarrely, I go to my bro's gun and try it - it doesn't fire, and he's been complaining about it. I start adjusting the same part in his, all the way left and suddenly that too start firing nail after nail, but I can't find anything conclusive that says this part is an adjuster for the gas/air mix

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I think the plastic "thingy" makes not a jot of difference because it isn't an adjuster..... At least not on any gun I've ever used (and that's a few different brands and models)

Things to consider:

Is the battery fully charged? (did you fully charge it when you bought the tool?) My Senco gun starts to play up when the battery charge is getting low.

Are you using good quality gas? I avoid Champion gas like the plague because it seems to booger up kit.

Is the gas in date? Old gas doesn't always work.

Have you got enough pressure? Faulty gas cannisters can lose pressure and the gun will then refuse to fire as it doesn't have enough of the mixture.

Is the gas too cold? Even in summer after a night in a cold place like a cellar the gas might be too cold to fire, although this is more an outdoors winter sort of issue.

Are the battery terminals clean? (No black residue)

Is the nozzle on the gas cannister fully seated in the receptor hole?

Is the gas compartment cover properly closed?

Has the adaptor on top of the gas cannister been properly connected? Can take a bit of pressure to do this (should be two audible clicks) - and worth noting that these adaptors aren't always good when new so I always keep a couple of (used) spares which are known to be good in the box, just in case.

You mentioned how much cheaper your nails/gas were in a previous post. Maybe there's a good reason for that. Were I starting I'd get a 1100 pack of good quality nials and gas, such as Rawl nails and try them first. If they work then swap the nails or gas to determine the culprit. Personally, I suspect your gas

This is just your starter for ten

BTW many tradesmen remove the battery if the tool isn't going to be usd for a while (e.g. over a break time, etc) because even that green flashing light causes battery discharge

 

[RogerBoyle]

Its most likely just the battery needing changing for a freshly charged one

 

[cjard]

I think I'd checked pretty much every point in your post, JAK.. Gun was brand new, had fired maybe 200 nails total in its life. Battery was fully charged that morning before use, gas was bostitch brand, didn't appear to have a date on canister or box. Nozzle on the gas was definitely seated correctly, and it had the adapter fitted that bostitch/hitachi/rawl use (the manual for the gas depicts removing a plastic collar if the gas was to be used in a paslode.. Yep, I'm that RTFM I did even read the manual that came with the gas cells..)
my bro's gun had some firmahold gas in, tried his battery and gas on mine and mine in his, neither gun was firing, and you could definitely hear his one sparking (I wasn't paying as much attention to mine at the time). Post twiddling the gas receiver both guns fired nail after nail flawlessly. I must have fired 20 nails from each gun, and up to that point I'd tried just about every variable I could think of including reseating the battery and gas more than once..

..but I do still think the same as you; I just can't see how it can have made a difference, hence the query. The manual doesn't mention it at all in the 'doesn't fire" trouble section and you'd think it would if it was relevant.. I'll take my gun apart one evening and see what can be seen. I suppose just because it's new (and my bro's gun was just back from service for the same no fire issue and had done maybe 200 nails also, and the shop had tried brand new gas and battery when he took it in, before they sent it off) doesn't mean everything is tickety boo.

 

[cjard]

Its most likely just the battery needing changing for a freshly charged one

After 200 nails? I suppose they are only small batteries.. If it starts acting the goat in future that's the first thing I'll make sure to try

 

[RogerBoyle]

They are small batteries and if you leave them in the gun for any length of time they do still get a drain on them for the electronics ( flashing LED and Gas sensor ).
I always made a point of taking the battery out if it was going to be anymore than 5 mins. Unfortunately when the cold weather comes they can get worse as the gas doesn't like the cold LOL

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I always made a point of taking the battery out if it was going to be anymore than 5 mins. Unfortunately when the cold weather comes they can get worse as the gas doesn't like the cold LOL

Yes, I concur, although I have found that guns with NiCd batteries (such as the Paslodes) seem to drain batteries far faster if the batteries are left in than those with NiMH (e.g. Senco) or Li-Ion batteries (e.g. "new" Paslode, Spit, etc). Might be worth knowing if the user had ever charged the battery - straight from the factory after months of shipping/storage the battery charge might well have been much reduced. Only way to knowhow well a battery performs is after it's been through the charge-discharge cycle half a dozen times IMHO

 

[cjard]

Battery was brand new, first thing I did was stick it in the charger and wait for the charge cycle to complete.. However I do concur with your opinion that nicad batteries seem to improve over the first few cycles. I'll disconnect it next time (or maybe I'll fit a switch to the gun)

You're right that gas doesn't like the cold.. It requires heat from the world to vapourise from liquid to gas.. Ever run a space heater off a gas bottle in winter and noticed the frost on the bottle? The situation should get better after the first nails and the gun itself heats up but you might was to keep the gas in your knickers until it's time to use it. Like my mum used to with her squash balls when she was playing in winter. Er

 

[cjard]

ps, what was puzzling about the battery thing was that I didn't charge the battery again that day at all. I plugged and unplugged it many times, used it in two guns with identical symptoms and neither in was firing. Gas in and out several times, same battery swapped between guns, the gun would run the fan (like it does when you stab and release without firing) and I could even hear a tink noise when pulling the trigger of my bro's gun (which I took to be the spark) and the guns would fire if I popped the gas hatch and manually squeezed the gas bottle into the outlet one squirt.. They just wouldn't fire reliably. Fiddles wih that bit of plastic and (same battery) suddenly it was nail after nail, 20 from each gun (same battery). I even took the gas out of my bro's gun, twisted the plastic all the way the other way and it stopped firing, then adjusted it back and it started again

I'm totally prepared to be completely wrong and it's all just a massive coincidence, just wonders (short of pulling a new gun apart out of curiosity) what other people's opinions were..

Maybe someone else with one of these nailers can give it a go, twist it this way n that and see if it makes a difference to the gun firing

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If that plastic "thingy" makes such a difference - when it shouldn't - I'd begin to suspect manufacturing variances and I'd be back at the supplier's doors pronto. Nailers are supposedly meant for a hard, high volume workload and there are enough things which can go wrong (see above) without having to faff around with a less than accessible nozzle every time you use them.

Maybe worth noting that when my Senco was about 9 months old it started playing up - not firing consistently. The manufacturers had it back, diagnosed it, and fitted a new igniter board FoC. In my (and their) experience this isn't a common fault and to check for it yourself you need to partly dismantle the gun (top off, fan out, etc) so that you can see whether or not the gun is sparking properly

 

[Don44]

I know it's frowned upon to bump a thread that's been quiet for a while, but this thread pops up on the first page of Google results when searching for help with this issue. This might help others.

I have the Bostitch equivalent of the OP's nailer and had exactly the same symptoms. After tearing the gun apart I found that the issue was with the mechanism that lifts the fuel cell into the cylinder feed nozzle. Try these steps if you're having a similar issue:

1) Remove the fuel cell, battery and nails.
2) Keep the fuel cell hatch open and pull back on the nail feeder to allow you to depress the contact arm
3) Make sure that the metal arm and rubber pad that sit underneath the fuel cell chamber are lifted towards the cylinder when you depress the contact arm

It seems as though this mechanism can be thrown out of alignment during normal operation.

If that doesn't work, the issue could be with the O-ring on the cylinder head. It's pretty loose and can can become jammed during firing, allowing gas to leak from the chamber and of course meaning there'll be nothing for the spark plug to ignite when you pull the trigger. Follow the steps in the manual under "Cleaning and lubrication", paying particular attention to the steps for reassembly. Basically, ensure that the O-ring is properly seated when you press the contact arm before you finish putting it all back together.

 

[^woody^]

Pulled the gas cell and squirted it a few times - it's ok. Back in the gun, in place as per instructions, I manually squeeze it to load a shot of gas, do the gun back up and it fires one nail, then stops again..

I've always found that to be a gas problem with our Paslode gun. Either poor quality, old or otherwise not a good enough mixture to get a spark - this could include not all the gas from the previous shot being exhausted.

The battery is mainly to power the fan, so if the fan works, then there is enough power for a spark.

Cleaning of the chamber, valve and filter could be associated to poor gas mixture too.

 

[chappers]

I would agree 90% of the time changing the gas canister or warming it up. Though to be fair I bought a new one two years ago and I don't think it's missed a shot in all that time. The old one would go through fits and starts and I never found servicing it made any difference.
Not directly related but last week I went to borrow something off my mate who was working on a big site and there was an old boy building a stud wall with a hammer and nails, I nearly fell over. Even last time I was on site if you had gone to the stores and asked for 3" wire nails they would have asked you what they looked like.

 

[cjard]

As a follow up, we did find an issue with my brother's gun where the lifter mechanism that presses the gas cylinder had developed a crack in the arm that converts the horizontal push on the tip into a vertical one that squeezes the gas. Seems that not quite enough of a squeeze was being applied by the cracked arm

Father in law has the same gun and a recent issue with his was one don touched on - the o ring had split, though it was more obvious as it eventually jammed the gun

As to why mine stopped firing that day, I think it was the dosage device on the head of the gas cell. I've noticed that there are some good ones and some bad ones, on both my framing and finishing nailer cells. Sometimes when the nailer won't fire, if I remove the cell and use a flat blade screwdriver to press the squirter pipe on the dosage head directly, nothing comes out. If I pump it ten times or so, you can visibly see more gas being squirted each time. First time I saw this I thought the cell might be getting empty, but taking the dosage head off and pressing the cell's squirter tube with the screwdriver gave a large face full of gas (and it doesn't stop unlike with the dosage head so don't hold it down for long or you'll exhaust the gas supply). Interestingly, squeezing the cell in the gun didn't seem to make the dosage head gradually produce more gas; I have to do this trick outside he gun to get success, and often I just row the dosage head away and use a previous one I've kept because it worked more consistently


Which did then make me wonder whether the gas cells can be refilled more economically than buying new ones, using lighter gas refill cans.. There's quite a price difference between a paslode fuel cell and a swan vestas refill, and it can't all be because of the trace amount of oil in the paslode

It may also be worth noting that the dosage head is a different shape on paslode vs other manufacturers; my bostitch nail and fuel box packs came with clear instructions as to how the head should be modified with a supplied plastic spacer depending on which make of gun it was being fitted to