ATAG A325EC Vs Vaillant 837
- Thread starter Doug450
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You might struggle aftersaleswise there too. Seen Intergas website spares price list. PCB £299. OK that's list, but you'd need one hell of a discount to make sense of that. Then there's VAT.
The intergas pcb is bullet proof though.
I've changed hardly any in 10 years.
I've changed hardly any in 10 years.
Needs exp an fill loop built in tho dan?
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Even if it survives a nuclear holocaust, it's too dear.
Have a few installed now and admit it's a worry.
Possibly Bunnyman - but the whole USP of the Gash is that it is so blindingly simple.
Serviced one the other day and really was at a loss of what to do to the things once I had drunk my cup of tea.
10 year warranties on the horizon too.. not so sure about that idea though.
Serviced one the other day and really was at a loss of what to do to the things once I had drunk my cup of tea.
10 year warranties on the horizon too.. not so sure about that idea though.
You pay for what you get... seriously, people moan about "cheap components" but the failure rate is minimal even if you take sales volumes into account.
Think I'm convinced about the ATAG..
I think some of your comments about Vaillant are a bit extreme, I have a Vaillant installed in another property, apart from a few issues (faulty pressure sensor, and leaking hoses, which stopped leaking after I fixed the pressure switch) it's been bullet proof, easy to use and was easy to install. The other good thing about Vaillant is they are common in the UK and therefore fault finding is easy because there is loads of info on the internet... parts are easy to get (from my limited experience). I accept that is from an end user point of view who has minimal experience compared to some of you.. from my view the avoid like the plague comments seem a bit unfair
I think some of your comments about Vaillant are a bit extreme, I have a Vaillant installed in another property, apart from a few issues (faulty pressure sensor, and leaking hoses, which stopped leaking after I fixed the pressure switch) it's been bullet proof, easy to use and was easy to install. The other good thing about Vaillant is they are common in the UK and therefore fault finding is easy because there is loads of info on the internet... parts are easy to get (from my limited experience). I accept that is from an end user point of view who has minimal experience compared to some of you.. from my view the avoid like the plague comments seem a bit unfair
There are number of boiler manufacturers that rely on their previous form so that they can use poor quality parts and charge top dollar. Worcester Bosch (ripped out a 5 year old junior this week) and ideal are the same. They all love to throw plastic and rubber into their white boxes. I take it you've carried out repairs to your Vaillant yourself? Did you notice how much plastic there is inside? Rubber hoses!!! I know that they leak, other engineers know that they leak, manufacturers know that they leak, so why do they fit them in the first place? It's so that they have a continual turnover, it's just business.
Installers want what's best for their customers, some manufacturers have been playing dirty and stabbing us guys in the back. There comes a point where the decreasing reliability and poor respect overtakes their previous good form.
James.
Installers want what's best for their customers, some manufacturers have been playing dirty and stabbing us guys in the back. There comes a point where the decreasing reliability and poor respect overtakes their previous good form.
James.
The point I'm making Dan is this. Not installed as many as you but now been offering them since about 2010. These boilers don't sell themselves. I have to do a bigger pitch for the boiler than I need for selling my own services. Sometimes I lose customers to competitors offering the usual makes.
At that price, if after 5 years the PCB goes, to save reputation, I'll have no alternative than to supply and fit one for less than the part costs me.
There are another 15 things on my list that I don't like about the HRE (more than any other boiler), yet still think they're one of the best products. Hopefully IG's R&D will listen for future modifications.
Be interested to hear what the other things are Tibbot - maybe in the CC?
But i take your point... mind you how much are some other PCB's? Are WB about the only company with reasonable spares prices now?
Good thing too
.
I think I put a price comparison up for some spares a year or two ago. IG didn't come out too bad - especially when you consider the likelihood of actually needing any.
Plus the only difference between all the models is the length of the combustion chamber seal.... which I have only ever changed one - and even then that was my fault
But i take your point... mind you how much are some other PCB's? Are WB about the only company with reasonable spares prices now?
Good thing too
.I think I put a price comparison up for some spares a year or two ago. IG didn't come out too bad - especially when you consider the likelihood of actually needing any.
Plus the only difference between all the models is the length of the combustion chamber seal.... which I have only ever changed one - and even then that was my fault
I haven't joined CC, but none of them are taboo on open forum.
Minor ones.
1 Possible need for NRV to prevent gravity circs. 2. No by-pass on combi. 3. Gas valve in way of pump. 4. Jig struggle for 1 man. 5. Need to fix spade connector for controls earth. 6. Pump head too low on system boiler. 7. No manual pressure gauge. 8. Have to buy pipe cover. 9. Lime fighter or water softener required. 10. HW 'slug'. 11. Trap not screwed or bayonet. 12. CO2 'L' figures always out.
Major ones
13. No cable clamps, wires pass through grommet knockout which leaves hole compromising case air tightness, 14. FGA port useless with some side flue installs 15. Flue fouls F/R connections on OV so have to use offset flue which leaves joint in wall. Engagement minimal on M&G flues with no lock, screw or band to secure, a major headache on long or vertical systems.
Minor ones.
1 Possible need for NRV to prevent reverse circs.
Never had this happen
2. No by-pass on combi.
Combi doesn't need it- although the system might.
3. Gas valve in way of pump.
How often do you need to get to the pump?
4. Jig struggle for 1 man.
Never had a problem - although I agree is it a bit flimsy
5. Need to fix spade connector for controls earth.
Yes that is a ball ache.
6. Pump head too low on system boiler.
Same for Bunnies et al.
7. No manual pressure gauge.
Never had a problem - boiler works down to 0 and dry firing isn't a problem.
8. Have to buy pipe cover.
Same for any other company.
9. Lime fighter or water softener required.
Same for any other company.
10. HW 'slug'.
Not if you set the temperature correctly for heating.
11. Trap not screwed or bayonet.
Why is this a problem? It won;'t come off with the front case on unless you REALLY force it.
12. CO2 'L' figures always out.
Only had this on a few. Certainly no more than any one else's. WB for example.
Major ones
13. No cable clamps, wires pass through grommet knockout which leaves hole compromising case air tightness,
Most of mine only need the one extra cable so the rubber grommet is fine, although I do by glands for other control installations so not a problem.
14. FGA port useless with some side flue installs
True - but do all other companies have test points off the turret elbow?
15. Flue fouls F/R connections on OV so have to use offset flue which leaves joint in wall. Engagement minimal on M&G flues with no lock, screw or band to secure, a major headache on long or vertical systems.
That first connection to the turret could be better - but can't say it has impeded any installations though.
P.S. I was more worried about thread hijacking than secrecy.... you should join the CC - its quite fun at times.
1 Possible need for NRV to prevent reverse circs.
Never had this happen
2. No by-pass on combi.
Combi doesn't need it- although the system might.
3. Gas valve in way of pump.
How often do you need to get to the pump?
4. Jig struggle for 1 man.
Never had a problem - although I agree is it a bit flimsy
5. Need to fix spade connector for controls earth.
Yes that is a ball ache.
6. Pump head too low on system boiler.
Same for Bunnies et al.
7. No manual pressure gauge.
Never had a problem - boiler works down to 0 and dry firing isn't a problem.
8. Have to buy pipe cover.
Same for any other company.
9. Lime fighter or water softener required.
Same for any other company.
10. HW 'slug'.
Not if you set the temperature correctly for heating.
11. Trap not screwed or bayonet.
Why is this a problem? It won;'t come off with the front case on unless you REALLY force it.
12. CO2 'L' figures always out.
Only had this on a few. Certainly no more than any one else's. WB for example
.Major ones
13. No cable clamps, wires pass through grommet knockout which leaves hole compromising case air tightness,
Most of mine only need the one extra cable so the rubber grommet is fine, although I do by glands for other control installations so not a problem.
14. FGA port useless with some side flue installs
True - but do all other companies have test points off the turret elbow?
15. Flue fouls F/R connections on OV so have to use offset flue which leaves joint in wall. Engagement minimal on M&G flues with no lock, screw or band to secure, a major headache on long or vertical systems.
That first connection to the turret could be better - but can't say it has impeded any installations though.
P.S. I was more worried about thread hijacking than secrecy.... you should join the CC - its quite fun at times.
Dan, I didn't say these problems were insurmountable or that they should bother anyone else. I get over all of them, as you do. Also I'm aware of other boilers, I have a list for them too.
The points made are what things 'I' don't like, which sort of makes them set in stone.
Will have a look at CC. Thanks.
The points made are what things 'I' don't like, which sort of makes them set in stone.
Will have a look at CC. Thanks.
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