B.A.S

[joinerjohn]

As the thread about Ban All Sheds has been locked, and since he's seen fit to send me a personal message which I'd like the opportunity to reply to (but can't as he's placed me on his blocked list) I feel I must post his PM to me here and reply to it.
Here's his PM to me.

So according to you, about me: "So as you can all see, he's certainly not qualified to be giving any advice on the electrics forum".

Can you provide a proper explanation, backed up by evidence, of what qualifications I should have, and can you show where I have given incorrect or poor advice because I don't happen to have them?

Or shall we just dismiss your observation as the pathetic lashing out of someone, so desperate to criticise me that, lacking any intellectual capability to do otherwise, they resort to an utterly valueless ad-hominem fallacy?

I'll reply on open forum (unless this thread get's pulled or locked by the Mods.
BAS, , suffice to quote you on another thread. (Your own words)

Back on track - DIYer, bash my own house around.

Read more: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=133610&start=0#ixzz1iFvwQMcD[/QUOTE]

You admit yourself that your a DIY'er, so it follows that you've probably read the regs pertaining to electrical work. By any stretch of the imagination this doesn't make you qualified

From Wiki :-The electrical trade is currently mainly governed by the JIB (joint industry board), who require City and guilds 2330 Levels 2 and 3, City and Guilds National Vocational Qualification Level 2 and 3, and a completion of a recognised apprenticeship or suitable practical training, to qualify as an Installation Electrician.

As you have stated that you yourself are a DIY'er (no qualified electrician would claim to be a DIY'er)
I certainly can't provide evidence as to whether you have ever given bad advice, simply because most of your diatribes in the electrics forum consists of asking posters if they know the relevant regulations concerning the question they have asked.
I for one wouldn't expect a question asked of plumbers, electricians, plasterers, builders, etc to be answered in the manner you answer posts. For instance if I asked a plumber about changing taps on my sink, I wouldn't expect him to ask if I knew all of the regulations pertaining to WRAS, would I ?
Have you ever heard of the term Lay Person?, because that is exactly what you are BAS. Nothing more, nothing less. The vast majority of your replies to people consist of endless regulation quoting (or not, as you mention regulations, but provide no links for people to actually look them up)

You sir remind me of people who join working mens clubs then a few years later get voted on to the infamous "Committee". They then suddenly develop a "Better than thou" attitude, and as a result, don't have many friends.
By all means keep me on your blocked list (forever) I'm sure I won't lose sleep over it.

 

[Alarm]

Hmmmmm difficult one here.
I know BAS can quote the regs, and I do find him amusing. And that is not an insult.
I have thought that he may not be a professional though.
Then again I had doubts about John W and he has admitted he is not a qualified sparks either.

What to do?
Both make intelligent contributions, try GD as a comparison.
Or Alarms where a few who fit the odd bit of DIY tat think they are professionals.

Where do you draw the line?

 

[joinerjohn]

Alarm, my reply in the now locked thread, wasn't a personal attack on BAS. I merely pointed out (in his own words) that he wasn't qualified, and that quite a lot of his replies to others consisted of reg spouting. I suppose the truth often hurts.

 

[Alarm]

In some cases I truly believe he has stopped fools killing themselves.

What can you say but well done.
I know he gets a bit "high brow" then again I do also.

He preaches from the same book as myself, understand then fiddle.
Just saying the green wire gores next to the pink and the red is a common thinghy. Does not help the OP.
As they will as per usual then think they can do it anywhere and at their mothers house either kill her or themselves.

So I have total respect for him.

 

[pred]

I've done quite a few rewires myself, i used to work with a sparky, but things changed when that MPs daughter was killed by a kitchen fitter some 10yrs ago, the trouble is a lot of people over estimate their capabilities, all sparkies have seen things that beggar belief, if some diyer has to ask he should not even be contemplating playing with electrics, and if memory serves me correctly, if you play around with someone elses cables etc there is a £5000 fine, so the only answer to these questions is USE A SPARKY! do not even bother quoting regs because they wont know what you're talking about.

 

[joe-90]

Then again I had doubts about John W and he has admitted he is not a qualified sparks either.

Is that John Wayne the famous cowboy?

 

[RedHerring2]

It would appear to me that the issue of advice given is covered in a similar way to the recent Equal Opps question, i.e. it is specifically mentioned in the Terms of Service, listed here: //www.diynot.com/network/help_tos.php

The relevant bit reprinted here:

Messages posted at this site are the sole opinion and responsibility of the poster.

It matters little if someone is or isn't qualified, or even if they claim to be when they aren't.
I'm not qualified in building, roofing, joinery etc, but I have given advice simply 'cos i thought I understood the problem and the solution.
As it happens, I do have a qualification in elecrical installation, but as it was gained in about 1968 under the 13th or 14th edition, I don't think it's relevant anymore, so I wouldn't give "qualified" advice. But I'm perfectly capable of suggecting correct cable size, etc.

On another aspect, I'm not a qualified MOT tester, but it doesn't stop me from understanding the MOT test manual.

 

[enyam]

As it happens, I do have a qualification in elecrical installation, but as it was gained in about 1968 under the 13th or 14th edition, I don't think it's relevant anymore,

But it is relevant,the FIL was/is qualified from further back then that but as he say's you can put as many regs in front, in between or after as you like if its not done right it can and will cause a lot of grief.

 

[RedHerring2]

But it is relevant,....

Not to me, it's not. Although I completed my apprenticeship and was 'on the tools' for a couple of years, I left the trade to persue a different carreer, eventually ending up in project managing IT solutions. Therefore I would not consider myself a qualified sparky anymore.

But as you say, I consider myself perfectly capable of DIYing my own electrics but need it testing by a Part P qualified sparky. Well some of it.
I consider gas to be as dangerous or even more so than electrics yet I can DIY my own gas service and it doesn't need to be tested.

 

[enyam]

I thought it relevant in so far as you know the basics and are qualified as such,or even more than the basics.I have done all my electric work under the guidance of the FIL.Does it need testing from a registered scheme member? who knows but it won't be.

 

[RedHerring2]

It ceratinly helps to know the way around the requirements, e.g. I laid my own underground cables to the garage and workshop, asked a local sparky to install the simplest of circuits in the garage and workshop, (in order to be worth his while) to include the testing.
Then I simply extended those circuits as required, no further certification required.

 

[masona]

You admit yourself that your a DIY'er, so it follows that you've probably read the regs pertaining to electrical work. By any stretch of the imagination this doesn't make you qualified

As Alarm quoted" where do you draw the line?"

Do you have to be qualified if you knows the answer to give advice?

BAS is a very knowledgeable guy and if any of the advice is wrong by anybody then I'm sure someone will give the reason why, there're also qualified people giving wrong advice.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Putting everything aside.
In the cold light of day, what you get from BAS is a person that tries to direct the poster asking the questions, to learn about what they are trying to do.
This can quite often be taken the wrong way.
I know sometimes the methods that BAS uses to deliver his posts, can rub people even myself up the wrong way.
BAS does not always answer the question that posters are asking in a direct way.
But as the saying goes

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

Care of BAS

So a simple answer as put the red wire to com the black(which should have red sleeve or marked up red) wire to L1 and your bare wire the CPC (which should be sleeved with green and yellow PVC sleeving) to the earth terminal may well indeed solve the problem, but the poster asking the questions has learned very little even though the light works.

 

[pred]

Putting everything aside.
In the cold light of day, what you get from BAS is a person that tries to direct the poster asking the questions, to learn about what they are trying to do.
This can quite often be taken the wrong way.
I know sometimes the methods that BAS uses to deliver his posts, can rub people even myself up the wrong way.
BAS does not always answer the question that posters are asking in a direct way.
But as the saying goes

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

Care of BAS

So a simple answer as put the red wire to com the black(which should have red sleeve or marked up red) wire to L1 and your bare wire the CPC (which should be sleeved with green and yellow PVC sleeving) to the earth terminal may well indeed solve the problem, but the poster asking the questions has learned very little even though the light works.

And then the diyer finds he is confronted with brown/blue instead of black/red or there is a fault on the circuit/system that a sparky would pick up on that BAS cant see, a small child gets electricuted, who's at fault??

 

[joinerjohn]

I have never said that BAS isn't knowledgeable , all I did was to point out that he is an amateur. However when someone asks a direct question, he often resorts to regulation spouting (which doesn't answer the question). His responses seem to be rather intimidating at times, when a simple "the brown wire goes to the terminal marked + and the blue wire goes to the terminal marked - would suffice" Instead of the "What makes you think your qualified to connect wires to this fitting?" and " How are you going to comply with Part P of the Regs?"

People come on here to seek answers to their questions,, not to be belittled for their lack of knowledge.
I'm sure he means well, but perhaps should lighten up a bit and actually answer the questions posed by posters. On the woodworking forum, I'd never dream of answering a question with "Do you think your suitably qualified to use an electric planer?" or "Are you aware of the building regs before you knock down that internal stud wall?" etc etc.