Board change....responsibilty of existing wiring to regs?

[Katron]

Some advice please.
Just passed my NICEIC assessment and the assessor told me that when you do a board change and issue the certificates, you are saying the whole installation is up to current BS7671 regs, if the installation is not up to regs don't issue the certificates.

But I have been to have a look at an extension, which would require updating the old consumer unit, aswell as doing the required wiring, but the problem is some of the old wiring is OLD rubber sheath/aluminium so where does that leave me, recommend a rewire, which they don't want pass it off, then would it be to current regs?

Obviously I would upgrade all the earthing etc, but the existing wiring?

Any thoughts would be appreciated


One more thing, if you add a socket/ light etc, then test that circuit are you saying that circuit is up to current regulations? If not why is this the case for a board?

 

[daytona]

when you change a board you are liable for every circuit in the house because you have worked on them all.an install cert is the only way to test this,yes any breaches of regulations/repairs need to be rectified.
i know its hard to tell someone the bathroom etc needs some major work when they just want a board change but thats the way it is.
if you cant do the job properly,walk away.
if you pass something that isnt up to standard and something happens during the life you put on the cert you know whos door they are goingto knock on.its your niceic,look after it.

 

[daytona]

why dont you do a periodic on it?
just tell tehm if you get the work for upgrading the install you will refund the periodic cert costs?
at least your covered and you get a few dollars out of it

 

[Katron]

makes sense, thanks for the good advice.

 

[equitum]

Some advice please.
Just passed my NICEIC assessment and the assessor told me that when you do a board change and issue the certificates, you are saying the whole installation is up to current BS7671 regs, if the installation is not up to regs don't issue the certificates.

My understanding is that the whole existing installation does not have to be to current regs, for example it is permissable to replace a consumer unit with lighting circuits that have no cpc. Also there is no requirement to install or upgrade supplementary bonding. However, all circuits must pass IR and Zs etc. The new elements such as the Cu, tails, earthing conductor etc must be to current regs, and main bonding installed orupgraded if required

Also, just because some of the old wiring is rubber or aluminium, if it passes IR tests and Zs then it is not necessarily unsafe. Obviously you should advise customer about elements of the installation that require improvement.

The way I suggest to go forward (similar to above advice from daytona) is to give a price for replacing the consumer unit based on what work you anticipate is required, and break this down into two stages:
1. Test and Inspection of current installation (which you need to do anyway before changing CU) and
2. Replacing CU.

Then make it clear that if during stage 1 serious defects are apparent that require rectification, additional costs will be added to stage 2, if they still wich to proceed.

 

[Katron]

thanks equitum, but if things are not unsafe, they still might not be to current regs. Cus the assessor says its not ok just to write your defects/findings down on the form.

Say for example I'm installing a light, and find a problem with the wiring, which obviously I am responsible for, but the client does not want to remedy, I can't leave a fault which is unsafe, but if I do and refuse to issue the certs I don't get paid.I s it a case of tough luck...

 

[daytona]

equitum,are you a proffesional?

 

[nozspark]

Katron,

If I were you then I would refuse to touch the old CU & associated wiring, cause as you know VIR can deterioate if you handle it!!

As you say you are looking at wiring an extension - so just split the tails and use a small CU for the extension, give the board it's own main earth and upgrade the main equipotential bonding. . Job's a good un'

Also issue a danger notice re. the VIR & lack of RCD on other board

 

[equitum]

equitum,are you a proffesional?

No, but I am a professional. Why ?

 

[bernardgreen]

One way to look at it is that after fitting a new CU with fast acting MCB and an RCD the old wiring will have better protection than it had before.

So walking away and leaving the old CU in place will leave the installation as bad as it was. And may open the way for some bodger to do a non professional job of changing the CU.

 

[equitum]

One way to look at it is that after fitting a new CU with fast acting MCB and an RCD the old wiring will have better protection than it had before.

So walking away and leaving the old CU in place will leave the installation as bad as it was. And may open the way for some bodger to do a non professional job of changing the CU.

Totally agree. By stating that the whole installation does not have to meet current regs some people may accuse me of being irresponsible. The bottom line is I do not do work for nothing, and people do not have unlimited budgets, so whilst ensuring that the work I do is to all current regs, e.g. the minimum requirements of BS7671 are met, areas of non compliance or improvement identified are pointed out to customers, and the installation is at least as safe or safer than before my work commenced then I am satisfied I am acting responsibly.

BS7671 is not, and never has been retrospective. If it were, the addition of a spur on a ring final fed from say an old rewirable fuse box would require the addition of RCD protection to the whole circuit i.e. all socket outlets. Now I may recommend that, but if the customer does not wish to pay for that, then I'm not going to do it free of charge, but I would be happy to install an rcd spur socket outlet for a given price!

 

[Katron]

thankyou you have all been very helpful