Following some further investigating I can see that the pipe with the red gate valve goes down from one of the tanks in the loft and goes in the tanks - from what I have seen on diagrams, it appears to be feeding the tank with cold water, which is to be warmed by the coil.
Boiler/heating issue
- Thread starter Rayniac
- Start date
Following some further investigating I can see that the pipe with the red gate valve goes down from one of the tanks in the loft and goes in the tanks - from what I have seen on diagrams, it appears to be feeding the tank with cold water, which is to be warmed by the coil.
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Well, what finally appeared to get my air lock cleared, was opening a bleed valve in the airing cupboard, adjacent to the pump. I had never before needed to ever open that bleed valve. Whether it sorted the air lock or not is anyone's guess.
OK - my apologies, I have to admit I have made a mistake by providing a picture of the cold water cistern and not the F&E one. I am attaching an updated picutre where it seems things are far from ideal. Please correct me if I am wrong but this potentially means a blockage which can be cleared out with a power flush? Together with treatment of the F&E tank of course.
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Plug the tanks outlet with a bung ,and scoop water out / sponge clean.
Did you try the above ?
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Tie up the cock, Syphon out the crap and then using the lowest point you can, drain the system. Once the tank is clean, you can then release the cock and let water flow through for a bit.
Once drained down, clean out the rads as well. Takes 5mins each.
Once all back together, bung in some cleaner (x400, etc,) and let her rip.
You might get the bugger working again.
Once drained down, clean out the rads as well. Takes 5mins each.
Once all back together, bung in some cleaner (x400, etc,) and let her rip.
You might get the bugger working again.
Ah boo. Yes looking at that it is extremely likely that there's a mountain of rubbish in the heating pipework caused by bodger 1 not cleaning the tank out before draining the system. Not necessarily magnetic rubbish either tho well worth investigating, possible there's a partial magnetite blockage which has been bunged up by the birdnest from the f & e tank.
Job 1 as above re mucking out the tank. Power flush might shift the rubbish (or some of it), might just push it into the boiler if it isn't in there already. Since the bodgers haven't already tried it I'll assume they don't have the kit and expect you to shell out £500 for someone else to do it.
The better way to address it depends on your magnetic inspection- if you do find a magnetic bit of pipework the best (and sometimes quite easy) fix is to cut out and replace that section. I don't believe (@terryplumb pls confirm or deny) you're allowed plastic in the feed and vent pipes so it's not a minimal tools DIY fix- has to be copper, if you've never soldered pipe before it isn't that hard with the right tools. Or you could use brass compression fittings- bit bulky and pricy but only need a couple of big spanners.
EDIT While you're waiting for your magnet you could do worse than removing the pump ( AFTER you've cleaned up the f & e tank), putting a bucket under each pump valve in turn and run a load of water through each valve and into the bucket. The water should gush out, if it doesn't you cld try prodding through the valve with a stiff wire (bit of 2.5 mm copper or a wire coat hanger).
Job 1 as above re mucking out the tank. Power flush might shift the rubbish (or some of it), might just push it into the boiler if it isn't in there already. Since the bodgers haven't already tried it I'll assume they don't have the kit and expect you to shell out £500 for someone else to do it.
The better way to address it depends on your magnetic inspection- if you do find a magnetic bit of pipework the best (and sometimes quite easy) fix is to cut out and replace that section. I don't believe (@terryplumb pls confirm or deny) you're allowed plastic in the feed and vent pipes so it's not a minimal tools DIY fix- has to be copper, if you've never soldered pipe before it isn't that hard with the right tools. Or you could use brass compression fittings- bit bulky and pricy but only need a couple of big spanners.
EDIT While you're waiting for your magnet you could do worse than removing the pump ( AFTER you've cleaned up the f & e tank), putting a bucket under each pump valve in turn and run a load of water through each valve and into the bucket. The water should gush out, if it doesn't you cld try prodding through the valve with a stiff wire (bit of 2.5 mm copper or a wire coat hanger).
There will be a 15mm pipe exiting from the bottom of the F&E tank, this is the cold feed to the system, trace to where it joins the heating system, see if a magnet attracts at this point, most common place for a blockage when the system is as dirty as that
A major update from today - after considering the options and lack of proper tools/time and sufficient knowledge, I contacted another plumber to come and take a look at the system. He had a very good idea what happened after the first two bits that I mentioned - changing the central heating pump and partially draining the open vent system. He said this would inevitably but massive amounts of air in the system and therefore the air had to be taken out. It took him less than 2 hours to do that and - all started functioning fine. It is a shame that this was the first company I contacted for the pump, but they were too slow getting back to me (receptionist out sick)... He was also quite unsure why the pump was changed without proper diagnosis but - too late for that.
Unfortunately, following 4-5 hours of proper functioning the boiler flamed out. I switched it off and then back on several times with no success. The fan starts working as it should, but no flame is ignited. As I understand I should not run the boiler like this, I have switched everything back off. Now - prior to leaving the house, the engineer today did change two rubber hoses in the boiler (they were literally falling apart). I contacted him and he said that the flaming out is most likely (actually he was certain) caused by the new hoses being too wide and he will come back to fit a different pair. I would need to do some research on this but to be honest I trust the guy so hopefully this will get resolved soon.
Unfortunately, following 4-5 hours of proper functioning the boiler flamed out. I switched it off and then back on several times with no success. The fan starts working as it should, but no flame is ignited. As I understand I should not run the boiler like this, I have switched everything back off. Now - prior to leaving the house, the engineer today did change two rubber hoses in the boiler (they were literally falling apart). I contacted him and he said that the flaming out is most likely (actually he was certain) caused by the new hoses being too wide and he will come back to fit a different pair. I would need to do some research on this but to be honest I trust the guy so hopefully this will get resolved soon.
Interesting (about the rubber hoses). But glad he's fixed your immediate problem without needing a powerflush and a new boiler 
. Suggest you keep the number of the first bunch of chancers in your phone listed under NEVER CALL THESE FOR PLUMBING JOBS, mebbe drop Trading Standards a line since they have performed unneeded work (replaced timer and motorised valve actuator) and left with no heating in winter (from a start point of heating working but noisy pump). Not really acceptable. For sure chase them for the cost of this bloke coming round to bleed the system properly...
. Suggest you keep the number of the first bunch of chancers in your phone listed under NEVER CALL THESE FOR PLUMBING JOBS, mebbe drop Trading Standards a line since they have performed unneeded work (replaced timer and motorised valve actuator) and left with no heating in winter (from a start point of heating working but noisy pump). Not really acceptable. For sure chase them for the cost of this bloke coming round to bleed the system properly...Yeah, the initial "specialists" already have sent me the invoice and I need to get back to them - not sure I will be able to argue successfully about the unneeded work (I bet they will say their engineers considered these were the right things to do) but I will deff chase them for today's bill.
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Your going to chase them for today's bill ? Does that mean Your going to ask the first company to pay for the recent visit of an engineer that has apparently fitted some" rubber hoses" that are not fit for purpose ,and left you with a boiler that still doesn't work ??
I don't think that's gonna add power to your argument !
I don't think that's gonna add power to your argument !
what rubber hoses ? what is the boiler make and model ?
Well the first lot would be on much firmer ground if their works had restored functionality to your previously functioning (but noisy) system....presumably you initiated the pump change conversation so you probably owe them for the pump and the labour to fit it but they should have mucked out the f & e before draining to replace the pump valves (which do tend to seize so fair comment there), the rest of it was as far as I can see throwing parts at an airlock, if they'd been half way competent you wouldn't have needed the 2nd plumber at all
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