Boiler manufacturers and heating engineers

[ajsdoc]

I'm in the process of looking to replace my old boiler and probably changing to an unvented set up, searching this forum has been very helpful in getting my head around it all.

What is apparent on looking for 2-3 quotes is that many engineers link themselves to one boiler company. I assume if you become an accredited fitter and fit x units per year you get increased discounts on the boilers/cylinders/controls etc? I can see the benefits for the installer, the manufacturer and the benefits to the consumer would seem to come in increased lengths of guarantee by going with a fitter linked to a manufacturer.

The only problem seems to be when you get a quote the boiler manufacturer is already chosen by the person quoting. I suppose you could liken it to a financial adviser who is tied to just offering products from his bank or a truly independent one offering "whole of market"advice.

I think it probably matters little (as ever I'll likely choose the person I most like, that's what usually happens and usually works well!). It just feels perhaps difficult to get truly independent advice as to what the best boiler may be when everyone seems to be incentivised to stick with one manufacturer. Am I right that this seems to be the way things generally are? I imagine if you don't align with one manufacturer as an installer you can't compete as well on cost and lose work as an accredited installer can offer longer warranty tems?

 

[ianmcd]

You are not far away with your assumptions, a lot of manufacturers do state that their installers fit a minimum amount of their products in a year in order to qualify for extended warranties or freebies etc. but if you decide on a specific boiler then either go for an installer that is accredited to that brand, or go for someone who will install that one anyway, to be honest going for an accredited installer might be to your benefit as they can get deals that another may not, there are posts on here daily asking for recommendations for boilers and if you can be bothered , read through them and read the comments that actually compare different products rather than just state buy this or buy that, giving some more info on your requirements might help also i.e. HW requirements , size of house , your location ?

 

[ajsdoc]

Thanks Ian. Yes, I've read lots of "which is the best boiler" threads and opinions seem to differ.

I've sort of decided WB, Vaillant or Veissmann seem to be (generally) well respected and I should be looking for.

I have an old floorstanding Mexico, gravity HW and 2 showers boosted by a shower pump. My boiler is still going but the person who services our boiler says the flue is starting to corrode and told us to think about a swap Spring/Summer so now is the time.

5 bedroom house, 10 radiators, 2 showers one bath and sometimes both showers needed at same time.

Im in the good position of having a working boiler so plenty of time to think and get quotes, I tend to be an over thinker though!

My only debate (apart from which specific boiler) is whether the unvented investment will be worth it (it adds a good bit to the cost.). That's the last decision, I plan to be in this house until I'm infirm so don't mind spending the extra £ if necessary (but then I think well it all works well as it is now, apart from being woken by the shower pump on the rare occasion one of the kids wakes up before me!)

 

[ianmcd]

unvented are great if you have a decent mains water supply, but as you say they can be expensive, you do get some combi boilers that incorporate a heatbank which is like a small unvented cylinder within the boiler, personnaly I like Valliant but that is my own preference, the other makes you mention are also very decent, look for something that satisfies your HW requirements , the CH side will take care of itself, lots of decent manufacturers are offering long warranties these days so look for a 5 or 7 year warranty at the least and you should be fine, another thing to look at is how many agents are in your area should you need their help during the warranty period.

Hope it all works out well for you

regards

 

[transam]

an installer will generally fit what ever boiler you want,

in many case's it makes an installers life easier if the customer specs the boiler.

 

[Tibbot]

I suppose you could liken it to a financial adviser who is tied to just offering products from his bank or a truly independent one offering "whole of market"advice.

Except a financial adviser takes his commission and s*ds off leaving you lumbered with your ball & chain into old age.

An installer, however, may want to look after you so will push products accordingly. Any financial incentive from manufacturers (all of which amount to paltry offers) are not worth the grief of fitting anything potentially troublesome.

Are you going to ask your installers the same about their choice of pipe, fittings or controls brands? People can read too much into boilers. Eg Worcester c/w cr*p installer, Salus controls, Floplast pipe, bell wire etc.

 

[ALEC1]

The truth is manufacturers will sell to anyone, and having listings to help that aim. There is little in it for the installer, no listing of qualifications of competencies or qulaifications, or training courses attended and when and no review section from previous customers.

The manufacturers do the minimum to sell their boilers to the public.. almost all find it a bit of an inconvenience that installers get in the way of completing a sale...

 

[vulcancontinental]

The truth is manufacturers will sell to anyone, and having listings to help that aim. There is little in it for the installer, no listing of qualifications of competencies or qulaifications, or training courses attended and when and no review section from previous customers.

The manufacturers do the minimum to sell their boilers to the public.. almost all find it a bit of an inconvenience that installers get in the way of completing a sale...

So much wrong and so much right in two paragraphs.

My view is most boilers are OK, the man is far more important than the boiler (a couple of exceptions with boilers) The customer will go by boiler publicity, and Worcesters spend a mint on going for the end user, then will buy what is an expensive boiler and screw the installer down on an install price; bonkers.

I've known many guy with an armload of qualifications that are not competent and the reverse as well; attitude is key.

Ask for the last four jobs the guy has done and go visit or ring them, don't be embarrassed. If he doesn't want to supply them find someone else.

 

[Agile]

Ask for the last four jobs the guy has done and go visit or ring them, don't be embarrassed. If he doesn't want to supply them find someone else.

I would not generally advise asking for that.

Firstly anyone I fit a boiler for is entitled to have his details kept confidential and certainly not to be bothered by a stream of calls or worse visits.

Secondly, its more than likely the numbers they give you will be their relatives or their staff and not at arms length!

Tony

 

[vulcancontinental]

Ask for the last four jobs the guy has done and go visit or ring them, don't be embarrassed. If he doesn't want to supply them find someone else.

I would not generally advise asking for that.

Firstly anyone I fit a boiler for is entitled to have his details kept confidential and certainly not to be bothered by a stream of calls or worse visits.

Secondly, its more than likely the numbers they give you will be their relatives or their staff and not at arms length!

Tony

I never had anything of that and some used to write a letter with the cheque that I could use as a reference including their name and address

If the customer is pleased simply ask for their permission to give their number to a future customer, you aren't going to give the number out ten times a week.

 

[ianmcd]

51000 posts and still talking shoite

 

[ServiceNumpty]

In this day an age of the internet, you can quickly find out if your installer has non incentivised recommendations via non partial sites like Which local, or in fact google reviews.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

In this day an age of the internet, you can quickly find out if your installer has non incentivised recommendations via non partial sites like Which local, or in fact google reviews.

Sorry mate but can you please explain further. How is Which going to know if an installer is getting a bung from a manufacturer?? Most boiler swop chancers around here have about 4 different names for starters!! Or if they're big & do a lot of advertising they go out the game in a couple of years.

It always find it amazing how the British public will take their car to the same garage year after year, but will use any old chancer out the paper or online to replace their boiler??..........

 

[ServiceNumpty]

The tradesman is not a member of which, it's the consumer. If the consumer has had work done and they are happy, the consumer can leave a recommendation for the tradesman on Which local. This is all done without the tradesman knowing (as I found out ) .

Also Google have the facility for the consumer to leave a recommendation for a tradesman, restaurant, garage etc on the Google search engine.

All these have nothing to do with the paid leads brigade.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

The tradesman is not a member of which, it's the consumer. If the consumer has had work done and they are happy, the consumer can leave a recommendation for the tradesman on Which local. This is all done without the tradesman knowing (as I found out ) .

Also Google have the facility for the consumer to leave a recommendation for a tradesman, restaurant, garage etc on the Google search engine.

All these have nothing to do with the paid leads brigade.

Nope, I'm still not seeing how you'd know if they favour one boiler over another or indeed if any manufacturer is paying them to install their boilers, how can you tell from an online line review??