Boilermate 2000 and Myson Apollo 30B - Store slow to heat

[be11aml]

Good Morning,

I have recently noticed that my thermal store seems to be slow to heat while demanding hot water or central heating.

In the past it was possible to run the heating continuously and the boiler would keep the store temperature above 60. In the last 3-4 weeks, when the heating comes on, the boiler fires when the store dips below 70, but the temperature keeps decreasing below 60 and the heating stops.

I've had British Gas out, who were not very helpful and suggested that the boiler is not up to the job. They really did not seem too bothered about fixing anything.

Can anyone suggest what may have changed or what I can do to return the system to heating normally again.

 

[45yearsagasman]

Something has changed.I assume the boilers output is set to maximum and the boiler stat is on maximum.A 30b seems a bit small.Any changes to rad sizes or number of rads? Is it just that the heat demand has increased due to severe weather? For the store to drop below 60 either the boiler is under performing or heat losses have gone up.

 

[mickyg]

first thing, have you paid british as any money? if so get them back. Never pay for nothing.
How many rads are on this system? what size house? its normal to use small boilers with thermal stores. As above, make sure boiler stat is on maximum.

 

[be11aml]

Well, not that you mention it there have been some changes.

Firstly we had a loft conversion done in Feb, but I am sure that the heating was working fine after this was completed.

Secondly, the pump for the boiler was a little noisey so BG changed that over the summer. The original was a 15/50 and it was replaced with a 15/60, which I assumed at the time was not an issue.

We tend to keep the doors closed and the thermostat is in the living room, so on/off will not be any different.

The new pipework for the loft is taken as a T-piece at the outlet/inlet for the rad circuit. I have noted that the return from this new circuit is cold compared to the return for the rest of the rads.

Sounds like additional heat loss, so I isolated the new rad circuit to (almost) return the system to original spec. The boiler was still unable to keep up with the demand.

 

[be11aml]

I have not paid BG anything yet, however, I am expecting a £50 repair bill (linked to homecare plan) as the engineer claims to have increased the gas pressure (is that possible?)

I have been doing some more investigating this evening. Things I have noticed.

The return pipe from the new rad in loft is freezing cold. There are two longish runs in the open loft space and these are lagged with nothing but thin foam.

The boiler was kettling a little last winter, but this appeared to resolve itself after I added some boiler silencer to the system. If anything, its too quiet now and sounds like its not working very hard at all.

 

[45yearsagasman]

Back to the original fault,if the store is slow to heat up and dropping below 60* then the 1st thing to check is that the boiler is operating at maximum settings.If you've added more rads then you have increased the systtem water volume and the heat losses from the store.Get BG back to check boiler settings before anythng else is done.I still think a 30,000 btu boiler is now undersized thats about 9kw.

 

[Fellacim]

There are 3 pumps on the boilermate. Did they change the primary pump (left hand pump)? Also, what speed setting is it set too as they like to be set to setting 3?

Boiler rate should be increased to be able to deal with rads.

 

[be11aml]

Thanks for your replies.

BG coming back tomorrow and I will ask that they actually check the outlet temperature and drop across the boiler to establish that it is working correctly.

I guess it is possible that the boiler is unable to cope with the additional rad and the cold weather at the moment is not helping.

Boiler pump set to 3, nothing appears to be wrong at the boilermate end, all sensors appear to be working.

 

[mickyg]

How did you get on with BG today? are you in B.Stortford? there's a whole estate with this setup there. The older systemate units used to get a problem like this but it were ok after being recommissioned. The 2000 should commission itself on power up. I'm assuming someones tried just turning the power off and then on again??

 

[be11aml]

Hi Mickyg,

Had to cancel BG today, as we got told that our power was being turned off to do some work on the power lines. Then later in the day, they decided that in this weather it would not be a good idea to leave everyone without any heating!!!

Anyway, BG now coming tomorrow.

I'm in Ware, not Stortford, but most of our estate has already ditched the Boilermates. It seems that BG do not understand them and so recommend that you get a combi.

The system has been on and off a few time, maybe I will leave it off for a longer time next time.

The more I think of it, the more I realise that the boiler is quite small and old and the new bigger rads are cooling the store too fast for it to keep up

Just need to know what to do about it

 

[Boilerman2]

45years - the whole point of a Thermal store is to allow a SMALL BOILER to be fitted to the system!! a 9Kw boiler is common on a boilermate system surely you have seen these especially in E. Anglia!

 

[GaytonTonner]

45years - the whole point of a Thermal store is to allow a SMALL BOILER to be fitted to the system!! a 9Kw boiler is common on a boilermate system surely you have seen these especially in E. Anglia!

That is not the whole point of a thermal store. There are many points. The store has to be big enough to act as a heat buffer, to be reheated by a smaller boiler. The store could now be too small.

It is true that far to many of these Boilermates are being ripped out because of ignorance. High flow combis are good earners.

 

[mickyg]

Hi Mickyg,

Had to cancel BG today, as we got told that our power was being turned off to do some work on the power lines. Then later in the day, they decided that in this weather it would not be a good idea to leave everyone without any heating!!!

Anyway, BG now coming tomorrow.

I'm in Ware, not Stortford, but most of our estate has already ditched the Boilermates. It seems that BG do not understand them and so recommend that you get a combi.

The system has been on and off a few time, maybe I will leave it off for a longer time next time.

The more I think of it, the more I realise that the boiler is quite small and old and the new bigger rads are cooling the store too fast for it to keep up

Just need to know what to do about it

ha thats funny. I'm in Ware too. I wasn't aware of any boilermate 2000s fitted in this town? :/ Don't know how they eluded me! There are some Boilermate II s on the vicarage. Anyway, that explains the army of EDF vans on new road this afternoon. Not sure about your problem though. If its worked before it could still be a commissioning issue. The store could be getting to cold before the boiler cuts in? Difficult to say behind a keyboard.

 

[be11aml]

Actually, you could be spot on with Boilermate IIs on this estate. I know the houses were built 1993 and our store was replaced in 2004 by BG (I think)

The rads were pathetically under sized in living room, so had to get bigger ones, then another in the loft conversion. Pure guess work, but i would say we have nearly doubled the volume of the rad circuit, based on panel size. I think the installers have over looked this point! I want to increase the size of one more rad, so this will only compound the issue.

Any suggestions of someone locally who can fix me up with a new boiler and what boiler would be required, I would like to keep the store.

 

[GaytonTonner]

Actually, you could be spot on with Boilermate IIs on this estate. I know the houses were built 1993 and our store was replaced in 2004 by BG (I think)

The rads were pathetically under sized in living room, so had to get bigger ones, then another in the loft conversion. Pure guess work, but i would say we have nearly doubled the volume of the rad circuit, based on panel size. I think the installers have over looked this point! I want to increase the size of one more rad, so this will only compound the issue.

Any suggestions of someone locally who can fix me up with a new boiler and what boiler would be required, I would like to keep the store.

Boilermates can supply quite large houses. Find out exactly what the problem is before you spend on a new boiler, unless you want a new condensing boiler. The great thing about a thermal store is that you only need a cheaper, simpler boiler. It does not need to modulate on the return temperature.

Many boilers modulate down when the flow is more that the boilers Delta T (temp differential). A Delta T of 15C. That is, if the return is 50C it will modulate the burner down to drop the flow to 65C. This means a slower warm up. Sometime you can hear the burner winding up and down on warm up. Try to get a boiler that maintains a constant flow temperature, and modulates down to maintain this.

To the problem. Turn off the new rads by the valves and put it back to the setup it was before. If it works OK then as before, it looks like the boiler not keeping up.