G
GaytonTonner
Please, I do not go by makers blurb. And please do not write that what I write is rubbish. It is far from that. You do yourself no favours. A forum like this is to exchange knowledge, not express prejudices.
All the thermal store makers make unvented and vented cylinders as well. They have nothing to gain by promoting thermal stores over any other cylinder. I do know exactly what I am on about having fitted, and still fit, many thermal stores and have done since the 1980s. You seem to have a thing about unvented cylinders as a competitor to a thermal store. They are not, except the DHW only versions.
One company is making a stainless steel DHW only coiled thermal store, not using a plate heat exchanger. These are superb. They are very simple and highly effective. They are heated by a coil, which means the bad sludged up rad water does not get inside the store and do damage. The DHW take-off is also via a coil. They have a stat and a blending valve. You can specify two stats to prevent boiler cycling. Give me one of these over any unvented cylinder any day. They are simple and last and last. Unvented cylinder so have complex pressure control gear. And they are not cheap to replace. I know of one homeowner who ditched an unvented cylinder for a high flow combi setup as the cost of replacing defective pressure control valves was way over the top. Drastic? Maybe, but his boiler was old and uneconomical, as well, so probably the wise thing to do. he appreciated the extra space and said he will use the airing cupboard to build a shower cubicle in the bathroom.
Thermal stores ARE very easy on boilers. To say they are not indicates a lack of knowledge on your part. A boiler which operates full out a few times a day, without cycling, is just going to last longer. It is as simple as that. I know of boilers on thermal stores with two anti-cycle stats that have been trouble free for 15 years. Yes and these were Baxi dogs and some were copper heat exchanger FuelSavers. Put them in an easy environment with full flow through the heat exchangers and no sludge running through the system, and they just last. That is, nothing has failed on the boiler. They only switch in a few times a day to reheat all of the store without any cycling.
The constant restricted flow of rad valves and constant cycling of boilers on a rad circuits means they do not last. They can't as the controls are over-used. The heat exchangers get full of sludge baked onto the insides and the flow is poor through them most of the time.
I have never known of blending valves fail every year. You must use cheap products. I did convert a Gledhill Systemate to a simple controlled thermal store by removing the pcb board, inserting a blending valve, stem thermostat and a simple relay inside the box. Anyone can understand it. Gledhill do make a simple store anyhow. They are not all with pcb boards. I have come across Gledhills that have been thrown out because the pcb was duff. This sort of ignorance I come across far too often. The customer is thousands of pounds out of pocket, and mess, for usually an unneeded inferior replacement.
It is nice to see we agree on the ATAG. Yes, it has an integrated gassaver which if you bought an Alpha with one, it would cost far, far more than the ATAG, which is a superior product overall.
I am impressed with the Intergas in its simple design and reliability record. They do not make a real high very flow combi, as ATAG and other do, which is a disappointment. I am surprised installers have not gone for the Intergas. If they took it up, then Intergas would sell them more and market more. I find many installers do not know what is available out there sticking to the best deal they get from the local merchant, which may mean a poor Baxi, Ideal or Potterton. I hope the quality of Baxi/Pott increases as the Dutch have bought them out.
If the cold main pressure is fine, in most of my new work I fit high flow combis or a DHW only thermal store if a cylinder change. The look on their faces when they see the mains pressure over the dribble from tanks, is a great seller alone. I have never had a callback on a DHW thermal store. In larger homes I go for the integrated CH/DHW thermal stores. Not one I have ever installed has sludged up. I make sure they do not by designing them properly and getting the right thermal stores.
I fit Magnaboost filters on all system, irrespective. They are brass and well made. They are worth the extra few quid. I dropped the awful plastic Magnaclean years ago. The new Fernox filter is also plastic.
All the thermal store makers make unvented and vented cylinders as well. They have nothing to gain by promoting thermal stores over any other cylinder. I do know exactly what I am on about having fitted, and still fit, many thermal stores and have done since the 1980s. You seem to have a thing about unvented cylinders as a competitor to a thermal store. They are not, except the DHW only versions.
One company is making a stainless steel DHW only coiled thermal store, not using a plate heat exchanger. These are superb. They are very simple and highly effective. They are heated by a coil, which means the bad sludged up rad water does not get inside the store and do damage. The DHW take-off is also via a coil. They have a stat and a blending valve. You can specify two stats to prevent boiler cycling. Give me one of these over any unvented cylinder any day. They are simple and last and last. Unvented cylinder so have complex pressure control gear. And they are not cheap to replace. I know of one homeowner who ditched an unvented cylinder for a high flow combi setup as the cost of replacing defective pressure control valves was way over the top. Drastic? Maybe, but his boiler was old and uneconomical, as well, so probably the wise thing to do. he appreciated the extra space and said he will use the airing cupboard to build a shower cubicle in the bathroom.
Thermal stores ARE very easy on boilers. To say they are not indicates a lack of knowledge on your part. A boiler which operates full out a few times a day, without cycling, is just going to last longer. It is as simple as that. I know of boilers on thermal stores with two anti-cycle stats that have been trouble free for 15 years. Yes and these were Baxi dogs and some were copper heat exchanger FuelSavers. Put them in an easy environment with full flow through the heat exchangers and no sludge running through the system, and they just last. That is, nothing has failed on the boiler. They only switch in a few times a day to reheat all of the store without any cycling.
The constant restricted flow of rad valves and constant cycling of boilers on a rad circuits means they do not last. They can't as the controls are over-used. The heat exchangers get full of sludge baked onto the insides and the flow is poor through them most of the time.
I have never known of blending valves fail every year. You must use cheap products. I did convert a Gledhill Systemate to a simple controlled thermal store by removing the pcb board, inserting a blending valve, stem thermostat and a simple relay inside the box. Anyone can understand it. Gledhill do make a simple store anyhow. They are not all with pcb boards. I have come across Gledhills that have been thrown out because the pcb was duff. This sort of ignorance I come across far too often. The customer is thousands of pounds out of pocket, and mess, for usually an unneeded inferior replacement.
It is nice to see we agree on the ATAG. Yes, it has an integrated gassaver which if you bought an Alpha with one, it would cost far, far more than the ATAG, which is a superior product overall.
I am impressed with the Intergas in its simple design and reliability record. They do not make a real high very flow combi, as ATAG and other do, which is a disappointment. I am surprised installers have not gone for the Intergas. If they took it up, then Intergas would sell them more and market more. I find many installers do not know what is available out there sticking to the best deal they get from the local merchant, which may mean a poor Baxi, Ideal or Potterton. I hope the quality of Baxi/Pott increases as the Dutch have bought them out.
If the cold main pressure is fine, in most of my new work I fit high flow combis or a DHW only thermal store if a cylinder change. The look on their faces when they see the mains pressure over the dribble from tanks, is a great seller alone. I have never had a callback on a DHW thermal store. In larger homes I go for the integrated CH/DHW thermal stores. Not one I have ever installed has sludged up. I make sure they do not by designing them properly and getting the right thermal stores.
I fit Magnaboost filters on all system, irrespective. They are brass and well made. They are worth the extra few quid. I dropped the awful plastic Magnaclean years ago. The new Fernox filter is also plastic.