borrowed neutral hall / landing

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upstairs and downstairs lighing seperate circuits. See this situation most of the time with live feed at hall switch feeding both switches! and 2 core cable run up to landing switch therefore borrowing neutral of upstairs circuit.
What is the best way round this when fitting dual rcd board?
Both lighting circuits on same breaker! or
supply a seperate live to switch from upstairs circuit to feed landing?
 
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alter and add cabling to seperate the two circuits, then one circuit on each RCD. not really a good idea to have both lighting circuits on the same RCD
 
i know what your saying but a lot of the time when a customers got their decor jus the way they like it , the last thing they want is you wrecking the place when in their eyes it worked perfectly fine beforehand.
so can they be put on same mcb and note made on eic to keep everyone happy
 
They can, yes, provided you can find the regulation which exempts installations from complying with 314 because of recent decoration, or if you genuinely believe that putting the lights on one MCB would mean that you had exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing, and that you had, to the best of your knowledge and belief, taken account of the danger that would arise from losing all of the lighting on the stairs, hall and landing (at least).
 
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So then banal, in addition to your useful and helpful post, what do you suggest?

(Please note that the OP is refering to an actual circuit in a real house owned by a real customer. This is not a thought excercise involving only a copy of BS7671 and an internet forum)




To the OP, how is the switch cable installed? Is it in conduit? how would you rate your chances of pulling a 3C+E in?
 
you needn't pull a new switch cable in though.
:?:
How would you do it then? (Honest question, not snarky) You need to get a live feed from the upstairs lights to that switch somehow, so I'd have thought that replacing the T+E between the upstairs and downstairs switches with 3C+E would be the easiest way (if it can be pulled).

How else would you get an upstairs live to that switch?

Incidentally, were does a pro spark stand if (in a situation like this) the customer says "I don't care if all my lights are on the same RCD, I'll just put up with it if they trip - you're not putting in any new wiring!" ?
 
you needn't pull a new switch cable in though.
:?:
How would you do it then? (Honest question, not snarky) You need to get a live feed from the upstairs lights to that switch somehow, so I'd have thought that replacing the T+E between the upstairs and downstairs switches with 3C+E would be the easiest way (if it can be pulled).

How else would you get an upstairs live to that switch?

Incidentally, were does a pro spark stand if (in a situation like this) the customer says "I don't care if all my lights are on the same RCD, I'll just put up with it if they trip - you're not putting in any new wiring!" ?

you could do it by running a neutral from the downstairs circuit to the landing light and disconnecting the neutral at the light. there is no need for all upstairs lights to be on one circuit, infact i have rewired some houses with lighting which do exactly that. If you have all rooms upstairs and the hall light on one circuit and then all downstairs lights and the landing light on another circuit, surely this is safer?

The customer gets to have a certificate stating that there are deviations from the regualations (i.e they have chosen not to have an installation that complies). Some sparks may even get a disclaimer signed :?:
 
given that there is likely not a live at the upstairs switch either ( T+E strapper and a single to the light.. ) then replacing the strapper with a 3C+E isn't going to help as you will also need to change the single to a T+E to bring the live in..

the better option is the aforementioned neutral to upstairs..

it is far safer that way as you don't control the downstairs light from the top of the stairs so a fault upstairs means no lights at all in the middle of the night to go down the stairs....
 
So then banal,
Ah - I see now - when you said that if I was banned "there would be much fewer personal insults, much fewer condescending remarks"
you meant that you wouldn't be writing something like that any more.

Glad we've cleared that up.

in addition to your useful and helpful post, what do you suggest?
First I'd suggest that you take note of the fact that all I was actually responding to was sparcktikus' "so can they be put on same mcb and note made on eic to keep everyone happy"


(Please note that the OP is refering to an actual circuit in a real house owned by a real customer. This is not a thought excercise involving only a copy of BS7671 and an internet forum)
On an actual circuit in a real house owned by a real customer a borrowed neutral cannot be left.

In a real house owned by a real customer you may not, IMO, claim to have exercised a professional level of skill and care if you have all the lights, or at least all of the lights covering the stair area, lost via the operation of one RCD, no matter what disclaimers you get the customer to sign or what notes you make on the EIC.

Emergency lighting would be one resolution, or providing a neutral so that the landing light could remain on a different circuit.

Disclaimers and EIC notes would not be a resolution.
 
So then banal,
Ah - I see now - when you said that if I was banned "there would be much fewer personal insults, much fewer condescending remarks"
you meant that you wouldn't be writing something like that any more.

Glad we've cleared that up.

in addition to your useful and helpful post, what do you suggest?
First I'd suggest that you take note of the fact that all I was actually responding to was sparcktikus' "so can they be put on same mcb and note made on eic to keep everyone happy"


(Please note that the OP is refering to an actual circuit in a real house owned by a real customer. This is not a thought excercise involving only a copy of BS7671 and an internet forum)
On an actual circuit in a real house owned by a real customer a borrowed neutral cannot be left.

In a real house owned by a real customer you may not, IMO, claim to have exercised a professional level of skill and care if you have all the lights, or at least all of the lights covering the stair area, lost via the operation of one RCD, no matter what disclaimers you get the customer to sign or what notes you make on the EIC.

Emergency lighting would be one resolution, or providing a neutral so that the landing light could remain on a different circuit.

Disclaimers and EIC notes would not be a resolution.

207096-banging_head_wall_uses_150_calories_hour.jpg
 
I'm glad you cleared that up BAS, another example of your lies.
A lie is an untruth knowingly told in order to deceive.

Please explain how what I wrote was a lie.

Assuming, of course, that you believe your accusation to be rational and justifiable.
 

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