Brexit - a reality check!

[Deleted member 18243]

We have been dependent on other countries for food since at least Victorian times. The need to import food, such as Canadian wheat and New Zealand lamb, etc was long established well before we joined the EU.

Exactly; therefore why do we need the EU?

is it just European labour you have an objection to?

My being (or not being) against foreign labour is not the point, unless you just want to make me out a racist.

The point is that we have organised things so badly that we pay our own workers not to work. Is it beyond the average British brain to do something about it?

 

[Notch7]

f we managed our own country properly (and granted, we don't) we shouldn't have to depend on other countries

its called globalisation Andy

I wonder what sort of job you do, you seem very out of touch.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

will you pay for their travel and accomodation?

I already am doing.

 

[Notch7]

Exactly; therefore why do we need the EU

Andy, trade is global has been for many years.

we import oranges, we export smoked salmon

etc etc

 

[Notch7]

I already am doing.

if you were taxes would be far higher

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Exactly; therefore why do we need the EU?

Because it is nearer and therefore transport costs, etc are cheaaper

The point is that we have organised things so badly that we pay our own workers not to work. Is it beyond the average British brain to do something about it?

Maybe. But surely part of the problem is down to the vast gulf between minimum wage (which is what a lot of these people would start on) and even average income, let alone top 10%.

 

[Odds]

Exactly; therefore why do we need the EU?

My being (or not being) against foreign labour is not the point, unless you just want to make me out a racist.

The point is that we have organised things so badly that we pay our own workers not to work. Is it beyond the average British brain to do something about it?

No, i'm not accusing you of anything, just trying to understand your perspective.
I don't understand your point in saying 'we pay our own workers not to work', unless you mean farmers being paid to leave certain fields fallow. People on benefits are not necessarily in the lap of luxury and those who cheat the system are not as prevalent as you'd imagine - despite what the Daily Express would have you believe.

Why do we need the EU?
Politically, we do not. This country has enjoyed autonomy for a millennia (and been bloody good at removing it from other countries) but economically and, to a certain extent, culturally, we do need Europe to boost our trade and provide cheaper services.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

there are plenty of unemployed people in Hull

there are shortages of farm workers in Kent

will you pay for their travel and accomodation?

I don't care about the cost of their travel and the lack of accommodation; it's lack of will that stops the benefit-drawers from getting jobs, and that lack of will is caused by benefit payments.

Seasonal farm work in Kent existed long before the benefits system, long before the EU and long before motorised transport. It was done by itinerant travelling folk from this country. It is described in Dickens's books and in one of the greatest all-time works of literature: "Down and Out in Paris and London" by George Orwell.

If such simple folk in such simple times could organise labour, why can't sophisticated modern Britain? An enterprising bus company could set up taking workers here and there. (Scottish readers will know about the berry buses).

The anti-work culture with its victim status and lack of will has been inculcated in the dole drawers for generations, it is their normality. We are not in normal times now though, we are in an emergency, and in such times food supply should come under government emergency powers, and in which I'd accept the mass transportation of unemployed people, by the state, down to the farms or factories where they are needed. If you think that this is extreme right-wing evilness and could not possibly be put into practise because resources are not available, think about what the government is currently doing with illegal immigrants. Yes, they are transporting them around the country and finding then temporary accommodation.

 

[fillyboy]

Seasonal farm work in Kent existed long before the EU, long before the benefits system and long before motorised transport. It was done by itinerant travelling folk from this country. It is described in Dickens's books and in one of the greatest all-time works of literature: "Down and Out in Paris and London" by George Orwell.

My sister, for a short period did the payroll on a farm not far from Slough, it tended to specialise in high value vegetables and sold to local supermarkets. The workforce was quite varied, depending on the season of course, the summer holidays would see a large influx of students, a small amount of locals but the mainstay would be 'Irish travellers' who followed the picking seasons around the country. From memory this would have been the late 90's,, the Irish would earn a steady 500 quid a week, the locals around half that and the students would give up after a day or two. It was piece work, the more you picked, the more you got paid. 30 years on I doubt anyone could earn 500 quid a week picking veg.
Somewhere down the line, somethings gone wrong.

 

[Mottie]

When I was young, half our street would travel to Kent in the back of a lorry and stay there for the six weeks, living in huts, sleeping on straw and picking hops. It was great.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Seasonal farm work in Kent existed long before the benefits system, long before the EU and long before motorised transport. It was done by itinerant travelling folk from this country. It is described in Dickens's books and in one of the greatest all-time works of literature: "Down and Out in Paris and London" by George Orwell.

Orwell's book is all very well, but Orwell had the opportunity, through education, of getting out of that situation (didn't he come off the tramp to be a private tutor?) - many feel that he went on the tramp as much to gather information for a book (he was by that time a published author) as through necessity, whereas the people he writes about (both in Down and Out and "The Road to Wigan Pier") were genuinely trapped in their situations, with little education or opportunity to change their lives. If you want to read about the level of destitution which people sink to if there is no safety net I suggest that you look up Angel Meadow in Manchester and read a bit about its' history. What you seem to be proposing is a return to no Welfare State and those depths of poverty. You should be ashamed.

 

[Notch7]

30 years on I doubt anyone could earn 500 quid a week picking veg.
Somewhere down the line, somethings gone wrong

Supermarket monopolies.

as a result of decades of right wing neo liberalism.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

‘What have we done?’: six years on, UK counts the cost of Brexit​

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[noseall]

Exactly; therefore why do we need the EU?

You mean the benefits of being a member? Like me you obviously don't trade much with European nations. You probably go on hoilday to Cleethorpes once a year too. Have a look at the link ex-Brexer RAC has posted below...

‘What have we done?’: six years on, UK counts the cost of Brexit​

MSN

www.msn.com

Brexit has been nothing but a pile of poo thus far. Even one of its staunchest champions (ReeSmug) struggles to show any benefits. Laughably he hails more powerful vacuum cleaners, phone charger ports, marks on pint pots and blue passports as life changing benefits, whilst the country is hundreds of billions worse off, is struggling through an acute labour shortage and has many pizzed off citizens waiting for these magical 'freedoms' they were all promised.

I despise EU politicians as much as our own. But I'd prefer that the UK thrived rather than what we have now.

 

[Dork Lard]

Why can't we have free trade within the EU without the EU bypassing our parliament with laws created by their EU parliament???