BS 88-2 315 amp fuses

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Hi, Does anyone have the time current graphs for BS88-2 315 amp fuses, got a site with 3Ka mcb with a PFC of greater than 40Ka. Upstream protection is BS 88-2 315A fuses. Would like the graph to see what current fuse would rupture and when, its a 3 phase installation. Tried Google but to no avail. (Yet)
Thanks
 
First you would need to get a bit more detail.

Next - I am not quite sure what you hope to achieve with a current / time graph.

I assume you are trying to determine if the 315A fuse will provide 'backup' protection to the mcb. If so you need to know the Let Through Energy of the fuse against a 40 kA fault current source (I²t A/s). Next you need to know the Withstand Energy of the mcb.

You then compare the two - this sort of information is generally available from the equipment manufacturers. BS 88 does not give this for particular makes of device.

Now you say you have a fault level of 40kA - how was this determined? Are you saying that this is the fault level at the mcb (IMO very unlikely), or is it the maximum for the installation (i.e at the source terminals).
 
I have them at home (no good to you I know) but you could get them from the same place I did. Contact Lawson Fuses and they will email you time/current characteristic charts for large BS88s and they also do a very useful fuse/motor match chart as well :wink:
 
NotHimAgain, Yes I am trying to find out if the upstream protection of the BS 88's are going to protect the 3Ka mcb's. The 40Ka PFC was measured at the supply of the dissy board, which is 2 feet away from the fuse box with the BS88's in. The factory has the supply transformer 400 yds away hence the high reading. Steel framed building with lots of parallel paths to earth. I suspect they will rupture before any damage but would like to see and know how to work it out. Never to old to learn
 
Unless the transformer is very large the true PFC will not be anywhere near 40 kA.

As an example a 1000 kVA transformer with a per unit impedance of 4.8 % would only produce a PFC of 28 kA at its terminals.

A 2000 kVA transformer with 6.0 % pu impedance would give just over 40 kA but this is at its terminals - not 400 yards away!

If you have measured this value using a loop impedance tester the result will almost certainly be way out. These instruments are next to useless when used close to power transformers. Even a small transformer can produce an 18 % error and this may be in addition to the 30 % error permitted by BS 61557.

Now that is not to say that a 3 kA mcb will be protected - that would depend on the actual fault level at the input terminals of the mcb and on the let through energy of the particular fuse.

This sounds like you are doing a PIR - have you any reason to believe that the installation was poorly designed? It may well be, but I would check carefully before stating that the mcb is not protected.

The best way of determining PFC in high energy areas is to calculate it. You would need to know all of the cable sizes and circuit lengths, and the transformer data to do this.
 
I have not expanded the graph ricicle has posted but if you do you will see that at 40 kA you are in the region below 0.01 second and no data is given. This is because current time graphs are not much good at this level and you need to use Let Through Energy data - as I stated above.

Let Through Energy (as with all other fuse data) varies for different makes of fuse and for source PFC.

Now as I also stated above - I doubt that the fault level is anywhere near 40 kA at your mcb.
 
Thanks for the replies, NHA, will be looking around for the info you suggested. Ricicles chart was small but as you said didn't give the info I thought I required. The 40kA was the pfc at the board as a single phase measurement then doubled as per the rule of thumb in GN3. I appreciatte this is belt and braces.
Thanks for all the input so far.
 
A number of people have viewed this post and some may not be familiar with this problem so I will try to give a simplified explanation.

Let's start with a example of a simple system - a battery with a length of cable connected to it that has a resistance of 0.5 ohm for the line and 0.5 ohm for the neutral.

Assume that the battery has an open circuit emf of E = 10 volts. I don't want to get into the use of the terms emf (electro-motive-force) and voltage so just assume that emf is the voltage on the battery terminals when it is not supplying any current to a load.

Batteries are made from materials that have resistance. These are used for the battery plates and the electrolyte. This means that a battery has resistance inside it and we call this internal resistance.

This internal resistance forms part of the system and it will modify the maximum current that the system can deliver.

Now if we give this internal resistance (r) a value of r = 0.1 ohm the battery would deliver a current of

I = E/r = 10/0.1 = 100A

if we put a short circuit across its terminals.

If we now connect our cable and put a short circuit at the far end - the circuit now has a total resistance of

r + R(line) + R(neutral) = 0.1 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 1.1 ohms

The short circuit current at the far end of the cable is

I = 10/1.1 = 9.1A

So the cable has considerably reduced the fault current level at its far end.

When we come to power transformers we have a similar situation. The internal resistance is now the impedance of the transformer windings, and an allowance for the impedance of the high voltage supply network that it is connected to.

The 40kA fault level is at the terminals of the transformer - to work out the prospective fault current at the far end of the 400 yards of cable that is in this installation - you would need to know the impedance (mainly resistance) of the cable. You will find that it will be much less than 40kA.

Now all this said what you are trying to ascertain actually requires a different approach - you do need to calculate the fault current at the mcb - but then you need to realize that it is energy dissipating as heat that actually damages things such as the mcb you are concerned about - not simply current. It may surprise you to told that in many cases it is the lowest value of fault current (usually due to earth faults) that will potential cause the most damage - because they flow for longer.

Take a look at the second paragraph of regulation 434.5.1 - this is the regulation you are trying to apply and you will see that it is written in terms of let through energy - not fault current.

Let through energy is generally represented as I²t A/s - this is called the joule integral (yes we are getting into calculus :shock: ).

To calculate an actual value you would need to know the equation for I in your system. In a.c networks at steady state this could be a sine function (hence sine wave). Now a short circuit is not a steady state especially during the first 0.1 seconds or 5 cycles of the supply. It gets even worse at 0.01 seconds because this is the first half cycle of the supply. Imagine you have just woken a tiger and it's response is to immediately lash out :D.

Calculating things becomes hard because we do not have a nice simple equation for I when the system is reacting in this way. So the manufacturer has to measure it in a lab and publish the results. That is the data you need to assess this situation.

You need the fuse let through energy at the fault level available at the mcb. You also need the withstand energy of the mcb. Now some manufacturers package this data in nice simple tables which can sometimes indicate that a particular fuse will protect a particular mcb.
 
Also the open circuit measured (calculated) fault current will always be higher than the actual due to the conductor resistance increasing during a high current fault.
For simplicities sake even an increase from 0.01 ohms to 0.02 ohms would halve the fault current.
 

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