Bungalow Re-Wire - Chase up to loft or up from suspended floor void?

[JohnW2]

I will follow the regs and get it signed off by a qualified inspector. All the wiring will be left open for inspection and the qualified electrician will switch over from the old CU.

If I understand you correctly, someone will probably be along to tell you 'that's not how it works'!

I thought the regs specified an IP rating for top of the CU?

They do. They also specify a (different) minimum IP rating for the sides and bottom. ... and it's not just CUs - the same IP requirements relate to any 'enclosure' which has live electrical parts within.

Kind Regards, John

 

[BigClick]

If I understand you correctly, someone will probably be along to tell you 'that's not how it works'!
They do. They also specify a (different) minimum IP rating for the sides and bottom. ... and it's not just CUs - the same IP requirements relate to any 'enclosure' which has live electrical parts within.

Kind Regards, John

I don’t get it? It’s to contain lengths of twin and earth as it rises into the loft? I want to use metal trunking to avoid a less durable and uglier plasterboard cover.

Are you saying it has to be IP rated at the top end where the twin and earths egress? Maybe with foam or rubber putty?

 

[Adam_151]

I thought the regs specified an IP rating for top of the CU? So was going install it to that. There isn't any cutting involved at the CU end of the trunking. .

I am unsure how you propose to be able to get cables from the board and up the trunking if theres no cutting involved?

(Don't think I'm being awkward, I am not sure you have the right idea here, but need to judge where you are with your thinking, if you are to be guided onto the right track)

 

[JohnW2]

I don’t get it? It’s to contain lengths of twin and earth as it rises into the loft? I want to use metal trunking to avoid a less durable and uglier plasterboard cover. Are you saying it has to be IP rated at the top end where the twin and earths egress? Maybe with foam or rubber putty?

No, there are no IP requirements for enclosures (and that includes trunking) that contain only insulated cables, such as T+E - the end can be completely open if you wish.

The issue is about entry of the cables into the CU (for which there are IP requirements - for top, sides and bottom, since it contains live exposed parts). Whatever method of cable entry (into the CU) you use, you will have to ensure that it complies with the IP requirements.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I will follow the regs and get it signed off by a qualified inspector.

You do realise that you have to get this inspector (and they are few and hard to find, BTW) engaged before you start work? You can't just do it all and then start trying to find someone to "sign it off", even if you do leave everything open for inspection.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you know how you are going join the trunking with the fuseboard?

It doesn't need to be joined to it.

In fact, it almost certainly doesn't need to be there at all, but the OP wants it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If I understand you correctly, someone will probably be along to tell you 'that's not how it works'!

It does if he contracts with a registered third-party certifier before he starts the work.

 

[BigClick]

You do realise that you have to get this inspector (and they are few and hard to find, BTW) engaged before you start work? You can't just do it all and then start trying to find someone to "sign it off", even if you do leave everything open for inspection.

I have an acquaintance who is qualified and agreed to inspect the cable runs, rectify any errors and switch it over from the old CU.

I’m not doing this to save money I’m doing it to get a quality installation. And because my labour is free and plentiful I can take my time and do a top end job that will be better than a lot of so called professional installations I have seen over the years, and I’ve seen a few.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have an acquaintance who is qualified and agreed to inspect the cable runs, rectify any errors and switch it over from the old CU.

Is he a registered third-party certifier?

What about Building Regulations approval?

What about an EIC?

Is he going to check your design calculations?

Is he going to do any testing?

 

[BigClick]

He told me he is certified (and I trust him on that) that’s why he has agreed to do it and issue the nescesary certificate for the work. Doesn’t that preclude any requirement of notification by me?

I have five visits planned by building control for other building work, do I need to get the architect to add in the rewire to that schedule?

Essentially I am paying him to rewire my home, I’m just the cable basher (third party?)

I dont want to keep bothering him with what I am thinking are basic installation questions because I generaly find DIYNOT to be very helpfull.

As I said, I want to do it right not just save money.

Thanks again for the comments.

 

[securespark]

but the OP wants it.

Do you want it, Sir? Do you?

 

[BigClick]

Do you want it, Sir? Do you?

Yes, It suits me sir ooh

 

[ban-all-sheds]

He told me he is certified (and I trust him on that) that’s why he has agreed to do it and issue the nescesary certificate for the work. Doesn’t that preclude any requirement of notification by me?

I'm still not clear whether you think he is a registered 3rd-party certifier, or a registered self-certifier (and TBH I'm not sure that you know the difference). Neither implies the other.

If he is a 3rd-party certifier he will notify the work to Building Control - this must be done before you start. If he's registered to self-certify then he has to do the work, or at least, when it is done, he has to certify to Building Control that he did it, and that it complied with the Building Regulations. So is he happy to make that declaration when it isn't true?

Then there's the Electrical Installation Certificate - not legally required per se, but it is required for Wiring Regulations compliance, so if Building Control are told that compliance with Part P will be/was done by compliance with the Wiring Regulations they will want to see one, and there's a declaration to be signed on it:

I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection & testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design, construction, inspection & testing hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2015 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:​

But he isn't doing the design, or the construction, so is he happy to sign to say that he did?

There is a version of the EIC with three separate declarations - one for design, one for construction and one for inspection and testing, but you are not competent to sign either of the first two.

If all he is planning to do is inspect, and test, and issue an Electrical Condition Inspection Report you may well crash and burn when you get to the point of wanting your completion certificate from Building Control.

I have five visits planned by building control for other building work, do I need to get the architect to add in the rewire to that schedule?

You need to discuss the situation with Building Control. Better to find out now that there's a disconnect between what you think is going to happen, your friend thinks he is going to do, and what BC want than when it is too late to do anything about it and they get sniffy about giving you a completion certificate.

Essentially I am paying him to rewire my home, I’m just the cable basher (third party?)

Technically that's OK, but for him to declare that he was responsible for it he has to genuinely supervise and direct your work just as he would an apprentice, or unskilled labourer. That means he has to be the one to tell you where to chase walls, how deep, where to drill joists, what cables to install, and so on.

Which means you do have to ask him the questions.

As I said, I want to do it right not just save money.

If he is honest, and trustworthy, and takes his responsibilities and the rules of his trade body seriously, then he is probably planning on giving you an EICR.

Building Control might be happy with that, but only if they have agreed up front. Spring it on them at the end and they probably won't be.


Tell them what your plans are to ensure compliance with Part P - see what they say.

 

[BigClick]

I'm still not clear whether you think he is a registered 3rd-party certifier, or a registered self-certifier (and TBH I'm not sure that you know the difference). Neither implies the other.

If he is a 3rd-party certifier he will notify the work to Building Control - this must be done before you start. If he's registered to self-certify then he has to do the work, or at least, when it is done, he has to certify to Building Control that he did it, and that it complied with the Building Regulations. So is he happy to make that declaration when it isn't true?

Then there's the Electrical Installation Certificate - not legally required per se, but it is required for Wiring Regulations compliance, so if Building Control are told that compliance with Part P will be/was done by compliance with the Wiring Regulations they will want to see one, and there's a declaration to be signed on it:

I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection & testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design, construction, inspection & testing hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2015 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:​

But he isn't doing the design, or the construction, so is he happy to sign to say that he did?

There is a version of the EIC with three separate declarations - one for design, one for construction and one for inspection and testing, but you are not competent to sign either of the first two.

If all he is planning to do is inspect, and test, and issue an Electrical Condition Inspection Report you may well crash and burn when you get to the point of wanting your completion certificate from Building Control.



You need to discuss the situation with Building Control. Better to find out now that there's a disconnect between what you think is going to happen, your friend thinks he is going to do, and what BC want than when it is too late to do anything about it and they get sniffy about giving you a completion certificate.



Technically that's OK, but for him to declare that he was responsible for it he has to genuinely supervise and direct your work just as he would an apprentice, or unskilled labourer. That means he has to be the one to tell you where to chase walls, how deep, where to drill joists, what cables to install, and so on.

Which means you do have to ask him the questions.



If he is honest, and trustworthy, and takes his responsibilities and the rules of his trade body seriously, then he is probably planning on giving you an EICR.

Building Control might be happy with that, but only if they have agreed up front. Spring it on them at the end and they probably won't be.


Tell them what your plans are to ensure compliance with Part P - see what they say.

I'm still not clear whether you think he is a registered 3rd-party certifier, or a registered self-certifier (and TBH I'm not sure that you know the difference). Neither implies the other.

If he is a 3rd-party certifier he will notify the work to Building Control - this must be done before you start. If he's registered to self-certify then he has to do the work, or at least, when it is done, he has to certify to Building Control that he did it, and that it complied with the Building Regulations. So is he happy to make that declaration when it isn't true?

Then there's the Electrical Installation Certificate - not legally required per se, but it is required for Wiring Regulations compliance, so if Building Control are told that compliance with Part P will be/was done by compliance with the Wiring Regulations they will want to see one, and there's a declaration to be signed on it:

I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection & testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design, construction, inspection & testing hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2015 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:​

But he isn't doing the design, or the construction, so is he happy to sign to say that he did?

There is a version of the EIC with three separate declarations - one for design, one for construction and one for inspection and testing, but you are not competent to sign either of the first two.

If all he is planning to do is inspect, and test, and issue an Electrical Condition Inspection Report you may well crash and burn when you get to the point of wanting your completion certificate from Building Control.



You need to discuss the situation with Building Control. Better to find out now that there's a disconnect between what you think is going to happen, your friend thinks he is going to do, and what BC want than when it is too late to do anything about it and they get sniffy about giving you a completion certificate.



Technically that's OK, but for him to declare that he was responsible for it he has to genuinely supervise and direct your work just as he would an apprentice, or unskilled labourer. That means he has to be the one to tell you where to chase walls, how deep, where to drill joists, what cables to install, and so on.

Which means you do have to ask him the questions.



If he is honest, and trustworthy, and takes his responsibilities and the rules of his trade body seriously, then he is probably planning on giving you an EICR.

Building Control might be happy with that, but only if they have agreed up front. Spring it on them at the end and they probably won't be.


Tell them what your plans are to ensure compliance with Part P - see what they say.

My experience of building control is that they are pragmatic and helpful, two things I have not been able to take away from any of your posts on this subject. However, thanks for demonstrating your interpretation of the regulations.

I can understand your negative attitude to DIYers and that you want to protect your "proffesion", in fact, I am tempted to take a five-week boot camp (that’s just over a month) and join NICEIC so I can self-certify and be rid of the stigma of DIY. I expect we will be proffesional peers then?

I meet up with my contact next week I will see what he has to say on the subject, which as you say I should have done in the first place.

I am happy for this thread to be closed.

 

[JohnW2]

I can understand your negative attitude to DIYers and that you want to protect your "proffesion"....

For what it is worth, you probably should understand that BAS is himself a "DIYer", so that your suspected motives are not applicable. I am sure that he has nothing other than your interests at heart.

What you say about Building Control is true in some cases, but since we are talking about differing individuals, experiences vary a lot and some can be very 'difficult'. Hopefully you are lucky in your area.

Kind Regards, John