C2s on EICR for victorian House

[Karip18]

Hi, selling victorian terrace. Buyers had full electrical survey done and some C2s were picked up. They are now saying we should pau for these - - having lived in the house for 6 years with bo problems and some upgrades.

Leaving aside the moving of sockets - - as this cannot be done as wall has water pipes in it and window (sighhhh), thoughts on these specific items?

Also any ideas of cost? (they have been quoted just over 2000 gbp)

Many thanks!

-install new water bond
-replace and install new DB due to poor condition
incorporating RCBOs/SPD
-raise 2 x sockets in kitchen as unable to use as to
close to upstand
-investigate high resistance reading on R2 and R2
on circuit 2
-replace back box on circuit 3 as damaged
-replace pendant in dining room/bed 1/bed 2
-install smoke detection throughout
-restest whole installation

 

[RandomGrinch]

You may want to remove the report and edit it. There is information on there that can identify you and others.
Sorry

 

[JohnW2]

Hi, selling victorian terrace. Buyers had full electrical survey done and some C2s were picked up. They are now saying we should pau for these - - having lived in the house for 6 years with bo problems and some upgrades.

Buyers always try it on. It depends upon how desperate you are to sell.

My approach (when not desperate to sell) is always to tell a potential buyer that the house is being sold 'as is' and that, whilst they are free to have the electrical installation inspected if they so wish, the asking price already took into account the fact that a buyer would have to have electrical work undertaken (and pay for it) - so they can either buy the house for the asking price, and then pay for the work, or else go and find another house to consider (and probably spend another £££ on another electrical inspection!)..

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

-raise 2 x sockets in kitchen as unable to use as to close to upstand
--install smoke detection throughout

Apart from the typo in the first of those, neither is, in my opinion, anything to do with an EICR, and therefore should not have been given C2s.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

An EICR has for the ease of the non electrical person a series of codes, back in early part of this century we had a code 4, which was to inform the owner the installation did not comply with the current edition of BS7671, idea was so owner knew what would need doing before a circuit could be added to. However this was considered as confusing, and code 4 was removed, so now we add a "C" to show on the new system, and we have three main codes.

• C1 = Danger Present (FAIL)
• C2 = Potentially Dangerous (FAIL)
• C3 = Improvement Recommended.

Plus some extras.

• FI = Further Investigation Required (FAIL)
• N/V = Not Verified (Unable to verify)
• N/A = Not Applicable.
• LIM = Limitation (Not tested or inspected)

These are not linked to BS7671, however the regulation number can be given. So if you can touch some thing live it is a C1, that is not really disputed, but 230 volt is potentially dangerous, but what one is looking at is most things have to have two things go wrong for you to get a shock, if only one thing needs to go wrong, then considered as potentially dangerous.

So we have guides, The electrical safety council best practice guide is considered a good guide as to what is, and is not reasonable. Every issue of the electrical regulations gives a date at which any new designs must follow it, it is not retrospective. There are very few items which if permitted when wired, are not permitted now, bathroom bonding requirements were changed, if all circuits in bathroom are RCD protected then most the bonding requirements have been dropped.

But if the home complied even as far back as 1960 then unless some thing has degraded or been altered it still complies. We would today like to see earths on the lights (came in 1966) and RCD protection (2008 for most of it) but looking at the list it seems OTT.

-install new water bond
Only if metal raising main.
-replace and install new DB due to poor condition incorporating RCBOs/SPD
If they want RCBO's and SPD they pay for it.
-raise 2 x sockets in kitchen as unable to use as to close to upstand
Replace with blanking plate.
-investigate high resistance reading on R2 and R2 on circuit 2
That is what the EICR is for, but OK yes likely needs doing.
-replace back box on circuit 3 as damaged
Possible, but also isolating circuit 3 would also make it safe
-replace pendant in dining room/bed 1/bed 2
Why
-install smoke detection throughout
Not required unless multi occupation
-restest whole installation
Not required, Minor works and installation certificates will cover for any work done.

There is no way I would do that work before selling, things like a new consumer unit vary in price from £60 to £600 depending if just two RCD's or all RCBO and SPU, to fit a new CU then for new owner to rip it out and do it all again as they want a higher standard is pointless, and also you do not want to be messing around keeping frozen stuff cold.

I had similar arguments with brother-in-law on selling late father-in-laws house, the buyer want this ripped out and that ripped out, before he bought it, but the items were on the estate agents list, so if they pulled out of the sale, then all needs putting back, replacing a broken window, or smashed socket yes, but major things like fitting a new consumer unit is down to the buyer.

If he wants to offer less as he thinks he will need to do work then OK he offer less, and you decide if to accept it.

 

[Karip18]

Thanks for the responses - very helpful! They have asked for over 2 k off as

that was their quotation - - so seems we need a few quotations to address the bare minimum and counter offer. See uploaded page from report attached if it helps explain at all.

Thank you again!

 

[JohnW2]

-install smoke detection throughout
Not required unless multi occupation

Even if it were to have 'multiple occupation', it would still be nothing to do with an EICR, and therefore should not have been coded.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks for the responses - very helpful! They have asked for over 2 k off as View attachment 250537 that was their quotation - - so seems we need a few quotations to address the bare minimum and counter offer.

As I said, if it were me, unless I were desperate to sell, I would not 'offer' (or 'counter offer') anything - if they don't want (or can't afford) the house, 'as is', at the asking price, if they are going to have to spend money on the electrics, then they should look for a different house.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Karip18]

Ok, thank you - very helpful to hear how others would approach it.

 

[securespark]

Thanks for the responses - very helpful! They have asked for over 2 k off as View attachment 250537 that was their quotation - - so seems we need a few quotations to address the bare minimum and counter offer. See uploaded page from report attached if it helps explain at all.

Thank you again!

Don't start accepting that you should knock off any of that £2K....

Tell the vendors that if they want the house, that's the price.
Very few houses on the market have a "perfect" EIC report.
There are so many dodgy reports out there, they cannot be trusted.

Those "C2"s are not C2s at all. The guy is a shyster.

 

[ETAF]

i have to agree with others, having sold quite a few houses now, and 2 houses following probate.
Often the price on the market has already been reduced and I have taken an offer.
i often say , i won't negotiate further following any survey, and have done just that.

I have had people pull out for all sort of reasons, the last one , they didn't release that as my house would be their 2nd home the stamp duty was much higher and wanted me to come down considerably on the price, I said no and moved on , I happened to then sale the house at a higher price, then their original offer anyway.

On the other side whenever I purchase , i always negotiated on the price making an offer and then again after a survey ,try to negotiate down again, most people came down further as we are well into the process, and they may have a home they are moving to , they don't want to lose, even though I probably would have continued with the purchase at the original agreed price anyway.

But you have to be prepared for someone to walk away or walk away yourself.
in the 80's boom I lost 4 houses , 3 because of gazumping and the 4th there where so many issues raised on the survey and lots of different rights of way, it would cost far to much , so I pulled out.

I certainly would not get involved with fixing anything as "big" as a potential replace CU & Rewire.

Not sure what the market is like at the moment in your area, around us now , waiting list for property , our neighbours put house on market and sold at asking price within 24hrs.

it will depend on how you feel about starting again, if they do pull out, how much you can afford to come down on the property ( offering a price reduction, rather than get any work done, which may delay the completion anyway, getting trades in at the moment can be quite difficult and long delays), and still buy your new property and the market in your area, how easy it would be to put back on the market and if prices are increases (like they are in my area at the moment) for your property

 

[JohnW2]

i have to agree with others, having sold quite a few houses now, and 2 houses following probate.
Often the price on the market has already been reduced and I have taken an offer. i often say , i won't negotiate further following any survey, and have done just that.

As I often mention here, because I have a family member whose business is buying, sometimes refurbishing and selling houses, I over many years I have seen a lot being sold - usually at least 2-3 per month. We always take the stance that the asking price took into account our belief as to what sort of work would have to be done by a buyer, and that we won't re-negotiate after any survey - and then do stick to that. Although a few do, most buyers (who are usually just 'trying it on') do not 'walk away' when one sticks to that. As I implied before, I think one reason for that is that if they do walk away, it is they who are the financial losers, since they will probably have to pay a second (or even more) time for surveys (structural, electrical or whatever) if they don't buy our property!

We try to take a similar approach when buying. A lot of the houses are in poor condition and clearly need a lot of costly work done on them. However, IF the asking price reasonably reflects that, we usually do not attempt to 'knock down' the price even further if/when our survey(s) confirm what we all already knew.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Adam_151]

Echo the comments about sticking to be price

But to give the chap doing the EICR some credit, it does seem better than 80% of ones we see here, in contrast to secure, it reads as being a bit picky rather than outright wrong to me. Its more than possible that some of the C2s might be more like C3s but I wouldn't like to call them without at least seing them in a picture. But 2k to sort that out is excessive most of that wouldn't take that long to sort, 11 is the one that could be tricky, what make is the board might be difficult to get the right breakers and a replacment busbar, might have to settle for tidying up enough that you could reailstically say its no more than a C3. A new board would likely be a nice way to address several of the issues, but looks like you could address the issues without it, and still wouldn't cause the cost to be near 2k

 

[JohnW2]

Echo the comments about sticking to be price ... But to give the chap doing the EICR some credit, it does seem better than 80% of ones we see here, in contrast to secure, it reads as being a bit picky rather than outright wrong to me.

In most part, I completely agree with that. This isn't one of those 'cowboy' EICRs such as we have been seeing. However ...

... Its more than possible that some of the C2s might be more like C3s ...

In some cases, yes, but, as I've said, in relation to at least two specific issues ('inaccessible sockets' and 'smoke alarms'), I don't think they should be coded (maybe not even 'mentioned', other than as 'informal advice') at all.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Adam_151]

, I don't think they should be coded (maybe not even 'mentioned', other than as 'informal advice') at all.

Mostly Agree.... The smoke alarms cannot be coded, they could be included as a non-coded comment where appropriate, I wouldn't normally mention them in a privately owned property, but I would where we are working for housing association or landlord on rented propertty, or a property they are about to buy for that purpose, because it is something the client would want to know about as they have a duty to provide such systems, so such things get noted and infact the orders from several clients also ask us to check the smoke detectors are in date.

The sockets installed close to the counter so you cant get a plug in without difficultly, I would say it is a BS7671, the socket is installed in a such a way damage may be caused over time to flexes of appliances, I would have said a C3 is appropiate here