Can I wire a Pond this way?

[Spark123]

I have already given refrences to the meaning of "integral" and now "prefabricated".

Which do you believe the armadillo range is or isn't? Is it pre-fabricated to the point that it only requires plug-socket connections?

 

[totallyspies]

so as far as the law is concerned it cannot be "(c) pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections"[/quote]


I see from your underlining of the word "and" above you take it that the law defines "integral" as either moulded or sealed in some fashion. Well in that case one could use this item

http://www.espares.co.uk/product.aspx?id=102335&c=1102&ma=435&u=1&sa=1

Chop off the kettle end plug, and wire into the supplied junction box.

 

[totallyspies]

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=394

 

[Spark123]

so as far as the law is concerned it cannot be "(c) pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections"

I see from your underlining of the word "and" above you take it that the law defines "integral" as either moulded or sealed in some fashion. Well in that case one could use this item

http://www.espares.co.uk/product.aspx?id=102335&c=1102&ma=435&u=1&sa=1

Chop off the kettle end plug, and wire into the supplied junction box.

No, you can't chop it off and use a junction box, you can use the iec connector providing it has been manufactured for the task in hand (which I doubt). I take integral to mean an "essential part for completeness of" and in the context of pre-fabricated to mean it has had the plug and socket fitted in the factory, not in anyway in a kit form in the context of this thread to mean where you can fit your own plugs or sockets.

 

[RF Lighting]

Haven't we been here before?
Didn't this result in the topic being locked?
How is any of this helping the OP?

 

[Spark123]

Haven't we been here before?

Yes, by same person who tries to wind everyone up just to try and get back at one member of this forum.

Didn't this result in the topic being locked?

Yes, I believe so.

How is any of this helping the OP?

Hopefully by to OP taking on board that the suggested option is a bad choice which will involve him breaking the law if he fails to notify this to LABC, which I certainly believe to be in this instance to be the case.

 

[RF Lighting]

Though so.

 

[totallyspies]

so as far as the law is concerned it cannot be "(c) pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections"

I see from your underlining of the word "and" above you take it that the law defines "integral" as either moulded or sealed in some fashion. Well in that case one could use this item

http://www.espares.co.uk/product.aspx?id=102335&c=1102&ma=435&u=1&sa=1

Chop off the kettle end plug, and wire into the supplied junction box.

No, you can't chop it off (really? why cant you?) and use a junction box, you can use the iec connector

No you misunderstand yet again. I said "CHOP, OFF,THE, KETTLE END PLUG" AND LEAD NOT THE IEC CONNECTOR. Is that clearer for you?

providing it has been manufactured for the task in hand (which I doubt).

You may doubt it but please provide evidence to back it up.

I take integral to mean an "essential part for completeness of"

YES, YOU, YOUtake integral to mean that. Thats your opinion.

and in the context of pre-fabricated to mean it has had the plug and socket fitted in the factory,

Really? where does the law say that?

not in anyway in a kit form in the context of this thread

You mean in the context of your idea of what it means. Again please post some credible links or references to back it up.

to mean where you can fit your own plugs or sockets.

So despite the definitions of "integral" and "prefabricated" you still wont accept that this is non-notifiable work? Why not? I think because you dont have the grace to admit when you are wrong

 

[totallyspies]

Hopefully by to OP taking on board that the suggested option is a bad choice which will involve him breaking the law

Please show expressly where the law says that and don't simply re quote SI 652. Show where the definitions I have supplied differ from the law as you interpret it. And give full alternate definitions which prove your point.

if he fails to notify this to LABC, which I certainly believe to be in this instance to be the case.

Well yet again you state "which I certainly believe to be in this instance to be the case"

And you still have failed to back it up with any evidence whatsoever in favour of your statement.


Why do you continue to say "I believe" and " I take it to mean" etc etc etc WITHOUT any evidence?


I have posted evidence from documents, posted in the public domain , by the IEE, the same people who write the regs, which you have already said you follow and abide by, and yet you wont even accept their definition of non-notifiable, and their definition of work which falls outside of the building regulations ???????


From the IEE wiring matters magazine, spring 2005....

Part P covers
the fixed electrical installation i.e. fixed
wiring and equipment. It is understood
that equipment plugged into a 13A BS
1363 socket outlet for example does not
come under Part P.

the link to the PDF.....

http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs...ng_wiring_matters_part_p_comes_into_force.pdf




http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/

and

http://www.toolsnstuff.co.uk/produc...0V-OUTDOOR-POWER-SOCKET-KIT&products_id=18950

and these


http://www.evoline.co.uk/acatalog/Evoline-kitchen-power-and-data-systems.html




Why do YOU think the above companies make and sell these items?


Is it so, when you install them, you must notify BC, OR because they DON'T fall under the building regulation Part P and that you / me a DIYER etc can install them WITHOUT notification? LMFAO


So do you still says this work is notifiable?

 

[Spark123]

so as far as the law is concerned it cannot be "(c) pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections"

I see from your underlining of the word "and" above you take it that the law defines "integral" as either moulded or sealed in some fashion. Well in that case one could use this item

http://www.espares.co.uk/product.aspx?id=102335&c=1102&ma=435&u=1&sa=1

Chop off the kettle end plug, and wire into the supplied junction box.

No, you can't chop it off (really? why cant you?) and use a junction box, you can use the iec connector

No you misunderstand yet again. I said "CHOP, OFF,THE, KETTLE END PLUG" AND LEAD NOT THE IEC CONNECTOR. Is that clearer for you?

The kettle end is an IEC connector is it not? What are you saying, remove the BS1362plug and wire the lead it into the junction box of an armadillo? Well if you wire it into the junction box then it isn't in the scope of "pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections" is it?

providing it has been manufactured for the task in hand (which I doubt).

You may doubt it but please provide evidence to back it up.

You need to provide evidence that the lead has the correct is suitable for permanent outside use first, otherwise you have not correctly selected and erected the equipment and failed to comply with part P1.

I take integral to mean an "essential part for completeness of"

YES, YOU, YOUtake integral to mean that. Thats your opinion.

Yes I do, and this is what the dictionary says: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=integral

and in the context of pre-fabricated to mean it has had the plug and socket fitted in the factory,
Really? where does the law say that?

"pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections"

not in anyway in a kit form in the context of this thread to mean where you can fit your own plugs or sockets.

You mean in the context of your idea of what it means. Again please post some credible links or references to back it up.

Well if you want to read it another way, please explain although I still haven't heard a good reason as to why it is non-notifiable.

So despite the definitions of "integral" and "prefabricated" you still wont accept that this is non-notifiable work? Why not? I think because you dont have the grace to admit when you are wrong

OK, please show me where it says in law in black and white that installing this is non-notifiable.

 

[totallyspies]

The kettle end is an IEC connector is it not?


Yes it is.

What are you saying, remove the BS1362plug and wire the lead it into the junction box of an armadillo?

Exactly that.

Well if you wire it into the junction box then it isn't in the scope of "pre-fabricated equipment sets

But prefabricated means....

Constructed in a factory, usually in modules or units, which is then assembled where it is to be used.


or

Prefabrication is the practice of manufacturing the parts of an assembly in one location, ready for them to be assembled in another place.

Note the word assembled IE put it together on site. IE connect the plugs!

and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections" is it?


Defined by the IEE, the rules and definitons that you say you and others should follow, clearly says

Part P covers
the fixed electrical installation i.e. fixed
wiring and equipment. It is understood
that equipment plugged into a 13A BS
1363 socket outlet for example does not
come under Part P.




You need to provide evidence that the lead has the correct is suitable for permanent outside use first, otherwise you have not correctly selected and erected the equipment and failed to comply with part P1.



HELLO.!!!!!!!!...this doesnt fall under Part P!!!!!!! THATS WHY IT IS NOT NOTIFIABLE! Do you get it now??? Unbeleivable!!!!!

I take integral to mean an "essential part for completeness of"



and this is what the dictionary says: http://dictionary.reference.com/sea...r the defendant to prove that it is![/b] LMAO

 

[totallyspies]

I suppose the way to settle this would be to ask the question...

"Is plugging in an extension lead notifiable, under part P building regulations?"

Clearly not, as part P applies to fixed wiring only.

If it were notifiable, that would mean that everytime, anyone plugged in any extension lead for any reason, it would be notifiable.


As defined by the IEE the extension lead is plugged into an exsisting 13A socket outlet and is therefore NOT within the remit of part P.

Therefore, why would an extension lead, which also is not fixed, and made of SWA be notifiable?

 

[Spark123]

Well if you wire it into the junction box then it isn't in the scope of "pre-fabricated equipment sets,

But prefabricated means....

Constructed in a factory, usually in modules or units, which is then assembled where it is to be used.

But is isn't a prefabricated (to manufacture in advance, especially in standard sections that can be easily shipped and assembled) flexible lead with an integral (essential or necessary for completeness) plug connection and socket connection, is it? Its got a jb on the end.

Defined by the IEE, the rules and definitons that you say you and others should follow, clearly says

Part P covers
the fixed electrical installation i.e. fixed
wiring and equipment. It is understood
that equipment plugged into a 13A BS
1363 socket outlet for example does not
come under Part P.

The iee don't write the law, they offer a standard to work to which complies with P1.

HELLO.!!!!!!!!...this doesnt fall under Part P!!!!!!! THATS WHY IT IS NOT NOTIFIABLE! Do you get it now??? Unbeleivable!!!!!

But where does it say this, in law?

OK, please show me where it says in law in black and white that installing this is non-notifiable.

In law, the onus is on the prosecution to prove otherwise. NOT for the defendant to prove that it is! LMAO

Oh no, not going down this route again eh??

 

[mottsy]

OK, I'm totally baffled now as to what I can do.
I have read the link to the article in the fishkeeping mag and think I shall go with the following.

Factory fitted Pond Pump and Filter flexes straight through the garage wall, (no connections or flex extensions outside.) Three pin plug added to both flexes and plugged into a double RCD Socket. The article seems to suggest that as it is plugged into a socket and not fixed, it is not notifiable.

Shame really, I think a RCD spur and the Blagdon switch block would be a better/neater solution but paying for a qualified sparks to install a FCU and switchbox would make the project too expensive. Should I want to add anything in the future I will have to reconsider calling in a spark or use one of those plug in multi extension leads.

Thanks

Mottsy

 

[totallyspies]

OK, I'm totally baffled now as to what I can do.
I have read the link to the article in the fishkeeping mag and think I shall go with the following.

Factory fitted Pond Pump and Filter flexes straight through the garage wall, (no connections or flex extensions outside.) Three pin plug added to both flexes and plugged into a double RCD Socket. The article seems to suggest that as it is plugged into a socket and not fixed, it is not notifiable.

Shame really, I think a RCD spur and the Blagdon switch block would be a better/neater solution but paying for a qualified sparks to install a FCU and switchbox would make the project too expensive. Should I want to add anything in the future I will have to reconsider calling in a spark or use one of those plug in multi extension leads.

Thanks

Mottsy

Mottsy, as long as you use an RCD, weather proof fittings and plug it into a 13A socket oulet you will be just fine. The previous "debate" is really just two differing opinions, thats all. We sparkys love to prove the other chap wrong So take no notice of us!

Enjoy your pond

Cheers.