Ceiling rose - light and fan wiring confusion

[badams]

Hi - I hope someone might be able to help. We're moving house and I removed the lamp from the bathroom which came with its own integrated choc-block connector to fit a standard rose instead to leave with the house.

But, although I'd originally fitted the light so must have changed it over from a standard rose originally, I can't for the life of me get it to work.

The thing is, I only seem to have three wires - two reds (one sheathed with clear plastic sleeve, which I assume is the switch wire) and one black. With the simple choc-block there were only two terminals, and I'd wired it black to neutral, both reds to live. I've replicated that - or I figured I had - in the new rose but nothing happens. I'm stumped. Could anyone explain what's going on? I've attached a picture of the rose with the wiring as it is at the moment.

thanks, adam

Untitled

• badams
• 25 Jul 2013
• 1

 

[riveralt]

Does the light stay on permanently?

It would help if you put up a photograph of the switch wiring.

Are you sure there are no other cables hidden behind the rose in a terminal block or a junction box?

There appears to be no earth - which would suggest that your neutrals are linked directly from ceiling rose to ceiling rose.
Did this light come on with another?

 

[badams]

No, it doesn't come on at all. I wondered the same thing about missing cables, etc, but nothing has changed since I removed the other light, which worked perfectly.

I should have mentioned, the switch controls a fan too, so that both light and fan come on together. Neither of them do now. I wondered if I'd blown a fuse in the fan and took that to pieces, but no fuse to blow.

I'll take a photo of the switch when I get home later then. thanks!

 

[riveralt]

Because you have singles it is sometimes physically difficult to track the various cables into and out of the switches and ceiling roses and you may need to obtain a multi-meter.
But if there are no missing cables and your ceiling rose wiring is correct then the lamp is likely to be first in line from the switch with the switch live into the live side of the ceiling rose and the switch live (clear tube?) out to the fan's live terminal.
I'm just a little surprised that you have a single neutral - the neutrals are probably arranged in a star formation though.

We have to wait and see what the wiring arrangement is for switch but for singles wiring I would expect to find live feed in (red) and switch live out (red).

One other thing you might try is to check that you haven't trapped the insulation under any of the ceiling rose terminals particularly the switch live in and neutral. Its nice to see no copper on display but those cables look very tight to the terminals.

 

[badams]

Thank you, that's very helpful. Will investigate further this evening...

 

[badams]

Thanks for the tip about checking the insulation. I stripped it back a bit more and tried again, but still nothing. So have taken a pic of the switch - below. It seems as though there are two red wires in grey outer sheaths and two without. One of each is wired into the terminal marked '1 way' and 'com'. Does this make any sense to you?

Untitled

• badams
• 25 Jul 2013
• 1

 

[riveralt]

From your pull switch photograph it looks like your switch is acting as the live loop - so the two red wires coming into the Common are your live loop and the two red wires going out are your switch lives.
But seemingly at your ceiling rose you have only one switch live so the other switch live from the pull switch is going somewhere else.

If I was trying to sort out the problem and apart from this light and fan everything else on this lighting circuit was working I would first of all identify if there was a voltage across the pull switch - it is possible that the switch has failed. To do that you need a multi-meter; know how to use it and be comfortable working live.

If the pull switch was not showing a voltage in the closed (on) position - then I would try moving the cables to the 2way position and test again.

For both of these tests the assumption is that there is power coming into the pull switch - so I would also test across the two common wires if I wasn't getting a voltage across the switch.

If I was getting a voltage across the switch then I would try and physically follow the switch live cables from the switch to the ceiling rose and wherever the second switch live went and then onto the fan. Then test again.