Ceiling rose problem!

[geeza69]

Hey guys, i recently decided that it would be a good idea to replace my existing ceiling rose (including the flex) because it has become very discolored and the wire that goes down to the light is an old type, the ones with like 2 wires running down to the light twisted - and the casing on the wires has worn away and left exposed wires

So anyway, i turned the power off and unscrewed the cover of the rose, everything looked simple enough, i measured the width of the rose and went down to homebase to buy a new one.

Heres the problem though, it seems that there are lots of different sized roses and i can't find one thats the same size.

Is this normal? I just assumed that all roses would be more or less the same size fitting.

I don't really fancy making a bigger hole in the ceiling just to accomadate a bigger rose.

Also the actually layout on the rose is different from ones i see, my rose is 4cm wide without the cover on.

Any ideas guys because i'm kindof stuck!

 

[big-all]

helllooo if i am reading this correctly

turn of power

you disconect the house wires from the ceiling rose
taking note of any colour discrepincy

remove old rose complete

you then replaice with a complete new ceiling rose
re using the same screw holes or one old and one new hole

big all

ooo yeh and what plugwash says underneath \i/

 

[plugwash]

if the light flex is like that it is probablly not the only think due for replacement

does your lighting cuircuit have an earth?
is the cable rubber insulated

if there is no earth or the cable is rubber insulated then the lighting cuircuit needs to be rewired

and the state of the rest of the wiring in your house is questionable too

generally you dono't make a big hole in the ceiling for a rose anyway just enough to pull the cables through

 

[geeza69]

Thanks for the replies!

There is 1 earth wire.

How do i know if the cable is rubber insulated? The wires just seem to be in plastic rubber like cords, the same as you find on modern wires as far as i can tell.

Doesn't the rose go into the ceiling slightly? I always thought they did .
The new roses i have seen seem to be at least 6cm wide and my current one is only 4cm wide.
So how do i put a 6cm wide rose into where a 4cm wide rose went?

Thanks again

 

[plugwash]

nah they are just screwed up

if you see a ridge when you take it down it mean decordators couldn't be arsed to take the rose down

 

[big-all]

the rose should be put on last

perhaps theres a layer of plaster or some other finnish
after the rose was put up in the intervening years

big all
beat me that time plugwash

 

[plugwash]

i would say your wiring needs to be checked by an electrician

either that light drop was very old OR it was bodged

both of which are worrying in terms of what they could mean for the rest of your wiring

 

[geeza69]

Thanks guys, my house was built around 1946, the wiring is still as it was then.
Does that help?
Re-wiring a whole house sounds expensive

The wiring looks in good condition, the only part that was damaged is the actual wire that leads down to the light-bulb, the wiring within the light looks of good standard to me.

So why would a house need re-wiring? Is it just because of the safety aspect?
And if so how dangerous would it be to leave the current wiring as it is (if it does need re-doing)?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks guys, my house was built around 1946, the wiring is still as it was then.

IF it is definitely the original 1940's wiring then it needs urgent attention. If you're not sure one way or the other, then it needs urgent investigation to find out.

Re-wiring a whole house sounds expensive

Cheaper than a fire...

The wiring looks in good condition, the only part that was damaged is the actual wire that leads down to the light-bulb, the wiring within the light looks of good standard to me.

The trouble is you don't know what the rest is like.

So why would a house need re-wiring? Is it just because of the safety aspect?
And if so how dangerous would it be to leave the current wiring as it is (if it does need re-doing)?

"Just" because of safety? Don't you think that safety is paramount?

The rubber used as insulation in 1940's cables, called VIR (Vulcanised India Rubber) has a short life (20-30 years), after that it can start to break down. Ironically, if it is getting flaky, (literally), doing insulation tests, or just physically examining it, can precipitate a failure.

Yours might be OK, but the odds are lengthening every year. The consequences of failed insulation can include electric shocks and fire.

Also, there are other issues with wiring from that period that have safety implications, such as lack of earths in lighting circuits, lack of supplementary bonding in bathrooms, use of service pipes as the installation earth.

I would strongly advise that you get an electrician in to check it out at the earliest opportunity.

 

[securespark]

Good advice from Ban.

VIR suffers especially where subject to extremes of temp. You'll find it becomes hard and brittle where it goes into roses, batten lampholders etc. If it is moved, the insulation will just fall off, which is obviously not a good state of affairs.

Maintaining any house is expensive, and you wouldn't dream of not replacing a roof just because of the cost. If roof tiles were slipping and water penetrating, you'd fix it.

Break it down into the cost per year for the expected life of the rewire and you'll find that you spend surprisingly more per annum on other aspects of your house maintenance (ie decorating etc).

 

[plugwash]

most of a rewire (with the exception of a CU change) is work that could quite easilly be done diy

once you've wired one rose its not going to really be any more complex to wire another 10 or so

same for sockets

 

[geeza69]

hmmmm

I would like to diy it but i think it might be a bit beyond my capabilities and also it sounds quite time consuming.

Ok thanks for your advice once again, i guess it's time to give the sparky a call!