Choice of downlights for kitchen and living room

[akist]

Hi guys,

I am trying to choose the right downlights for kitchen and the living room, I see there are two main choices, one choice is GU10 compatible, so you can buy and replace, if needed, your own lamps, or, all in one LED downlights, where I presume you replace the whole unit if it goes wrong.

I am leaning towards buying the old fashioned GU10 compatible downlights, like this https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/FRCDW.html - and for example couple them with these LED GU10 lamps https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTSMD5NW.html

My reasons are widest beam angle and dimmable and choice of light bulbs.

Is there a reason I should NOT be using the GU10 ones?

 

[SimonH2]

My personal choice would be to use something suitable for lighting the rooms - and I've yet to see a situation where downlights fit the bill.
But if you want lights in the kitchen that leave harsh shadows, glare off your glasses, harsh reflections off surfaces you didn't realise were reflective, and are generally unreliable (compared to most alternatives, plus harder to replace) then go ahead and cut lots of holes in your ceiling.
Same (mostly) applies in a living room.
Replacing the carp in our kitchen is on my list - just got lots of other stuff to fix in this house. Thirteen downlighters, and even with 5W lamps in the light is carp. I replaced one with a 10W bulkhead as an experiment - it does more for the lighting (both amount and utility) than the other dozen (so 60W between them) that are left.
Just my 2d, once you've made all those big holes it's hard to patch the ceiling up when you realise you're mistake.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Excellent.

P.S. crap isn't censored.

 

[opps]

My personal choice would be to use something suitable for lighting the rooms - and I've yet to see a situation where downlights fit the bill.
But if you want lights in the kitchen that leave harsh shadows, glare off your glasses, harsh reflections off surfaces you didn't realise were reflective, and are generally unreliable (compared to most alternatives, plus harder to replace) then go ahead and cut lots of holes in your ceiling.
Same (mostly) applies in a living room.
Replacing the carp in our kitchen is on my list - just got lots of other stuff to fix in this house. Thirteen downlighters, and even with 5W lamps in the light is carp. I replaced one with a 10W bulkhead as an experiment - it does more for the lighting (both amount and utility) than the other dozen (so 60W between them) that are left.
Just my 2d, once you've made all those big holes it's hard to patch the ceiling up when you realise you're mistake.

Surely many of your gripes could be mitigated by using tiltable recessed lights (and using more of them).

Years ago, after making fitted wardrobes for my bedroom, I used trigonometry to calculate the optimal recessed light positions to illuminate the interior of the wardrobe and the room.

I ended up with 1Kw of halogen bulbs (20 in total)- the room was only 5m by 4. Believe me, there were very few shadows... In the end, I was ordered to put them on two seperate circuits, and to fit two dimmers...

 

[EFLImpudence]

Surely many of your gripes could be mitigated by using tiltable recessed lights (and using more of them).

Years ago, after making fitted wardrobes for my bedroom, I used trigonometry to calculate the optimal recessed light positions to illuminate the interior of the wardrobe and the room.

I ended up with 1Kw of halogen bulbs (20 in total)- the room was only 5m by 4. Believe me, there were very few shadows... In the end, I was ordered to put them on two seperate circuits, and to fit two dimmers...

I don't think any of your options validates having downlights.

I ended up with 1Kw of halogen bulbs (20 in total)- the room was only 5m by 4. Believe me, there were very few shadows... In the end, I was ordered to put them on two seperate circuits, and to fit two dimmers...

That is just plain ridiculous.


The only reason for downlights is that people think they look nice when they are looking at them.

 

[opps]

The only reason for downlights is that people think they look nice when they are looking at them.

My ceilings aren't terribly high. I prefer downlights because I don't want to look at them.

 

[STI]

I do have downlights in my kitchen (but not my lounge, to harsh imo.) Yes they're bright but i want good light in the kitchen, I did not position them directly above my worktops tho, to prevent shadows as i worked. Very happy with the results. Main reason for posting this is to say i used the replacement GU10S into my existing halogen units. 480 watts down to 40w in total. I did this 3 years ago, no failures yet.

 

[SimonH2]

480W incandescent or 40W LED - for one room. That really sums it up - 2 to 3 times the power actually needed.
There are plenty of other options. if ceilings are low, uplighters can work well in a lounge - and it's easy to test beforehand with freestanding lights.
Hidden "coving" lights can also work, but highlight the slightest imperfection in your ceiling finish.

 

[Tetrarch]

I am not a fan of straight GU10 downlights and have been looking for something more flexible. In our lounge we've been living with Shelly GU10 tunable bulbs ( https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-duo-gu10/ ) on a ceiling bar for two years now and they have been great

That said, with our new extension I'd like downlights in our new 8m x 5m kitchen/living room. Flexibility is what is critical - I've settled on these LED bluetooth lights downlights from Aurora. https://auroralighting.com/gb/trade/ProductDetail/AU-A1BTD10CW

I've hacked our existing ceiling and installed half a dozen to get used to their light output and functionality. These are 10W RGB/CCT bulbs and at full chat they do punch out a serious amount of light - but that is really the point as you can change the brightness and the temperature to suit whatever you want the room to look like.

The outside of these lights is really neat - They are 110mm across and need a 90mm hole for the install. They sit nearly flush to the ceiling - it's just a 2mm mount. The light has a 100-degree spread so I'm currently planning to space them at 1.5m intervals

I'm happy to offer a counter view and am open to being critiqued

Regards

Tet

 

[akist]

I'm happy to offer a counter view and am open to being critiqued

In my current room, ceilings are low (2.3m), and you got to be directly under a spot light to discern details, plus there are areas with no spots above. It is a terrible design, and as I am getting older, eyes are failing, I need a lot of light to be able to discern details.

For my new house I have allowed for a lot of spots and the widest angle to allow me to see details almost regardless of position. You can calculate the angles and you want to have at least 2 light sources in every position. The 3 parameters are the height of the ceiling, the bulb's beam angle (assuming it is not recessed) and the height from the floor at which you want the beams to cross (so you get no shadows). The closer you move to the ceiling the darker it gets.

In the end I had to compromise because of joists and beams and designed 24 spots and 2 pedants in the living room (50m2) and 18 spots and 3 island pedants in the kitchen (40m2). Ceilings are 2.7m, the beams 105 degrees should cross at about 1.6m from the floor. That means I should be able to hold an object at my eye level (more or less) and be able to see details. A taller person might be in trouble.

Replacing the carp in our kitchen is on my list

Can it be your downlights are narrow beam angle and/or recessed? Spots go all the way to 110 degrees, but many are just 30 degrees. And some fittings place the light bulb further into the ceiling thus narrowing the beam even more.

 

[Murdochcat]

AVOID sealed units is my advice.

GU10 fixed or tilt, non IP or IP rated from KSR are ideal.

You can then change the bulbs if you want and this means you don’t have to remove the lights from the ceiling, potentially damaging the ceiling in the process

Ideal in kitchens, bathrooms, halls and landing but best avoided in bedrooms and living rooms

 

[SimonH2]

Can it be your downlights are narrow beam angle and/or recessed?

They are far from ideal - "no name" fittings with GU10 lamps. When we bought the place, the lamps were the "array of SMD on the face" type of lamps - apart from several having failed, the bezel covered half the LEDs making them doubly carp.
I've since replaced the lamps with the "one big LED in the middle" style lamps so now they are only singly carp. 36W of LED lamps should be too.much for the room, but it's not enough if you aren't working directly under one.

As I say, when I get round to it they'll get replaced with a couple of battens or perhaps bulkheads. SWMBO would have me fit an 8' flouro in the middle of the room.