consumer unit replacement

[greenmuzz]

Hi there,

I'm in the process of buying a house. It's a 1970s three bed semi. The survey pointed out only two potential hazards, the first that the electrics were old and should be checked before contracts were exchanged, the second that the boiler was old (so budget for a potential problem and make sure it's serviced).

We arranged for an inspection of the electrics, and the report was that there was "nothing that would raise concerns", but that it wasn't up to modern standards, with particular note that the fusebox should be moved and replaced at a quote of £600 plus £150 if we then also wanted a new cooker circuit (the current one having been hijacked for the cooker hood).

Now, these costs are not outwith our contingency budget, but I do have a concern: My reading would suggest that to replace the consumer unit would require that the rest of the electrics be fully checked and certified, which strikes me as a possible location of significant costs.

Would anyone be willing to hazard a guess at the possible extra costs, and the potential worst case bill?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Untitled

• Taylortwocities
• 2 Jan 2010
• 22

Its impossible to tell.
If I cannot see an installation first I always say "the change of a consumer unit could cost you about the same as a holiday, or a second-hand car".

What sort of "Inspection" did you have.?
Did you get a Periodic Inspection Report with details of each circuit and a list of the test results?
Were there a list of deviations from regulations (Class 1= dangerous, Class 2 = requires improvement, etc).
The report should state if the installation is satisfactory, or not.
If so you should not be concerned.

If you just paid a few quid for a visual inspection then you've wasted your money.


Please note that electrical regulations are not retrospective and there is no requirement for houses to be brought up to the latest requirements.
(I wish that were not the case, then I would be totally swamped with work!)

New regulations only come into play for new work. For instance, if you were having a new kitchen, it may be necessary to change the consumer unit to provide the latest environment for the new circuits.

 

[greenmuzz]

Thanks for that,

Unfortunately, where I thought we were arranging for some sort of proper inspection as the survey suggested, a visual inspection was what ended up being arranged in my absence, and was rapidly coming to the conclusion that nothing of use had actually been said at all.

 

[westie101]

Bear in mind that surveyors have what is called "the little red book" that gives them stock phrases to put in the report for differing situations.
So in your case the age of the property will have thrown up that he/she needed to include the comments.

If the cooker circuit has been "hijacked" for thae cooker hood, it would be cheaper top arrange a connection to a power circuit than to wire a new additional cooker circuit.

Was the person that made the electrical inspection actually qualified to do so?

 

[kevindgas]

1st things first, how old was the wiring estimated to be this is often a wild guess but wiring has changed a few times over the years as has the consumer unit requirements. so looking at the consumer unit is it fitted with MCB's or just rewirable / cartridge fuses? is there any RCD fitted as part of board or seperately?
as for the consumer unit you should be able to get a better quote as we don't charge anywhere near that for a standard 10 way 2 x 30ma rcd board.
even with fuel to get to you I could better the quote!
as for rewiring then again charges will vary from a little to a lot! a clearer indication of circuits would make it easier to guestimate!

kev

 

[greenmuzz]

the current occupiers have been in the house for 20 years or so, and the only modification to the electrics that they claim to have made is a couple extra sockets in bedrooms, and an extension for the shower, so everything else is at least that old, quite possibly as old as the house.

From the survey, I was of the impression that the phrases were very much along the lines of "oh that's old, I've got to mention it" rather than "i know what I'm talking about, this is a huge problem", and as the mortgage offer had no extra conditions regarding these comments, I don't take them as too large a problem, just a concern. I had hoped to have a more concrete response the the subsequent electrical inspection so that I would know if I were in a position of needing to bargain with the owner (because there was a big job to be fixed), or just keeping a budget for a potential problem. I suspect now that I wont be able to quite get the answer I want.

If it helps anyone out, the electrician we arranged (I'm afraid I left this to my GF...) via a recommendation, certainly appears to have qualifications. If it's of any use, this is his visual inspection result:

The main fusebox is mounted very high on the garage wall, is partially
obscured by the door mechanism, and consists solely of six re-wireable
fuses. There is a second fusebox which has a 30mA RCD protecting the shower
circuit.


Every room has sockets but none have the number that would be expected in a
modern house. The kitchen has been modernised but neither the fridge nor
freezer can be turned off without first removing the appliance. The cooker
supply has been utilised for the cooker hood, hence should you wish to have
an electric cooker another circuit would need to be fitted.


In conclusion,
· The main fusebox does not meet present day standards, neither in
the protection it affords nor in its accessibility, to move and replace it
would cost £600.

· There is no cooker supply, to fit a new one (from a new fuse box),
via a flush isolation switch will cost £150.

---
Cheers for all responses so far.

 

[sparkiemike]

As the house is between 30 and 40 years old and the existing owners have been there for 20 years with no modifications it would be safe to say the electrical installations is between 30 and 40 years old.

Also from your description the installation appears to be of its age.

A full PIR would give a better indication on the condition of the wiring.

A lot of electricains carry out a PIR before they start with a consumer unit change, some just go for it hope for the best and fix it afterwards at additional cost to you.

Worse case scenario you would need a full re-wire, best case you get a new consumer unit.

Given the age of the installation I would not expect there to be much remedial work, but you just can't be sure until you check!

 

[timtheenchanter]

is it really that inaccessible? mine certainly doesn't meet the requirements on height, but it isn't dangerous where it is, it just means you need to reach up (its above a "normal height" window)

We had it changed when we moved in, after similar comments to yours, but out mortgage co then wanted a full PIR, and any code 1/2 acting upon, the only things that needed doing were a borrowed neutral correcting, upsize the bonding, and new C/U. the installation is very similar age to yours as well.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The cabling for a house that age is probably in PVC which should still be serviceable.
The visual has thrown up one item - that of the cooker hood so i would want to know how old the kitchen is, and what state the electrics are for that!

For a 1970's house, the big question will be if the lighting circuits include an earthing conductor. IIRC this was a requirement after the mid 60's but I have seen houses from the early 70's where this had been omitted.

Again, this is not a major issue, but it does limit you to not using metal light fittings or switches.

 

[securespark]

£5000.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Exactly, as i said

about the same as a holiday, or a second-hand car".

.

 

[pyounger]

I tell you what... these 'new' regulations are a means to print money aren't they? £5000 to rewire a house! where's that Sandbanks? I paid £1289 + VAT two years ago to include the consumer unit (£75 from screwfix, it said so on the box) and an extension to my shed. And it was signed off.

As your surveyer pointed out just because there is a fuse box does not mean the electrics are in ANY WAY unsafe and in my experience having some bod with a meter come along and 'test' (test to see if you look like you can afford £2K, £3K £4K or £5K) does not necessarily mean that what you have is safe.

I had just such a test and a few years later found that a 13amp power socket had an 'extension' added to it's live cable of an extra 2 inches - presumably when the occupier switched it to a 2 gang socket and found the existing live wouldn't reach, it was extended by twisting a piece of standard cable (the sort you'd maybe get in an iron or toaster), onto the live circuit wire and wrapping a 'bit' of insulation tape around it! Lucky it was only ever used for the alarm clock

Look, Government statics state that 2099-2010 there were 47,000 house fires in the UK (of varying degrees) of those only 17% could be attributed to electric fires [edit; "Electrical Fires"]- and I'm guessing that most of those were due to idiots not old style fuse boxes

 

[EFLImpudence]

You can get a BMW for £100.

Edit - Just noticed the date - welcome and good first post.

 

[JohnW2]

Look, Government statics state that 2099-2010 there were 47,000 house fires in the UK (of varying degrees) of those only 17% could be attributed to electric fires - and I'm guessing that most of those were due to idiots not old style fuse boxes

That's true, and of the ~8,000 fires classified as 'electrical', most will probably be due to electrical appliances, rather than the actual electrical installation. However, that still leaves some which are due to the installation - and the important thing is that inspection/testing should (as it does,when done properly) identify issues which do represent appreciable risk (of electric shock, as well as fires), rather than simply not being up to the requirements of current regulations (for new installations/work). There is, and never has been, a requirement to update domestic electrical installations to current standards if they is not judged to be actually unsafe. Indeed, the vast majority of domestic installations are not fully compliant with current regs - but that, in itself, is not necessarily a problem - things don't suddenly become 'less safe' just because a new set of regs has been published!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[pyounger]

JohnW2: I think you have answered that very well indeed. I think people get a bit carried away by what a surveyor writes in his report an installation may be perfectly safe but because the chap with the clipboard writes words to the effect of "Wiring old and out of date" Johnny house-buyer thinks this is an automatic means of getting a few grand off the asking price.

Personally I have never given in to such stupidity and I'm not afraid to tell prospective buyers that. If I gave into that what next? they send in an interior designer who reports "Old curtain rails", "no picture rail", "White sockets & switches rather than the "in" satin & chrome" and soon they'll want another grand knocking off for that - another 'preference' not a need.

BTW I'm still seething at the thought of paying £5k for a rewire though unless it's a very large 8 bedroom house! - make that VERY large!