Contract between Plasterer and customer?

[TonyWarrington]

After a recent experience with a plasterer I have not used before I am a little disappointed. The plastering work that was carried out was IMO good - so no complaints there.

What has not been so good is reliability, promised to turn up on several occasions and did not appear - not even a phone call to say why. I had to do the chasing and got various excuses/reasons etc.

Due to this happening it has slowed down progress as electrician, gas and builders could not start or complete their jobs.

Agreed a price for 4 days work then was told that this was only an stimate and the work would require another day to be charged.

I accept that the pricing issue was probably down to my misunderstanding of what was being quoted for. Other plasterers that have done work for me have been dead accurate and up front on pricing for labour, materials and time to finish job.

To prevent this situation from occurring again in the future I am thinking that I should insist on a written agreement/contract.

The agreement should state clearly that the quoted price for time and materials starting and finishing date is fixed and the customer is not liable for any cost outside these limits.

Would you find this type of agreement acceptable? How do you work? Any recommendations?

 

[gday2uk]

To prevent this situation from occurring again in the future I am thinking that I should insist on a written agreement/contract.

The agreement should state clearly that the quoted price for time and materials starting and finishing date is fixed and the customer is not liable for any cost outside these limits.

It is good practice to agree everything in writing before commencement of works - when only done verbally things tend to get lost in translation.
Tradesmen generally offer estimates due to 'most' customers change their mind during the course of a job and invariably there are extras etc. as well as unforseen rises in material costs and uncovering things which nobody knew were there which the tradesman cannot be held accountable for.
You admit there was a misunderstanding of what was being quoted for and you were happy with the outcome of the work so I think next time all you need do is write a time keeping clause into the estimate / quote.

 

[trowelmonkey1]

plastering is about more than being able to plaster to a good standard, you also need to be reliable, quote accurately and competitively (excluding unforeseen bits) and be as tidy and clean as poss.

all of which i try hard to do for my customers, as i think it's this as much as anything else that will get me repeat business and referrals, shame not all tradesmen see it like this but i've heard of and seen some horrors.

any tradesman should live or die by his ethics/standards and its disappointing that people suffer at the hands of lazy unreliable tradesmen.

rant over!

IMO nothing wrong with getting something in writing before hand, some people may run a mile thinking you are trying to stitch them up with something you know is hiding on a job that they can't see but anyone decent should have no problem putting their name on it and should encourage both parties to think about everything before the job starts making sure everyone is clear about everything.

 

[noseall]

The agreement should state clearly that the quoted price for time and materials starting and finishing date is fixed and the customer is not liable for any cost outside these limits.

I agree to a point.

If you were to voice this stipulation prior to quoting then the contractors will automatically hike their quotes to accommodate your rigid rules.

The contractor will also build-in added time or overly extend the contract period to accommodate your time scale rules.

The contractor will also require a very detailed specification from which to quote, any deviation from this specification (on your part) may incur increased costs and time limits.

Cuts both ways boyo.

 

[trowelmonkey1]

never a truer word spoken! nice one noseall!

 

[joe-90]

never a truer word spoken! nice one noseall!

Thank him then.

 

[TonyWarrington]

Thanks for your replies. I can understand reluctance of anyone to enter into fixed price and particularly trying to anticipate hidden problems which will only appear when you start a job.

I can see that making these type of stipulations in a contract will cause the contractor to apply a contingency fund in their quote and maybe they would worry that due to this they will not be competitive. I work in an environment where tendering for contracts will nearly always include stipulations on finishing jobs by a given date and price and will also contain financial penalties if not completed (this would be a step too far I think ).

I think that there must be a happy medium here - both parties must fully appreciate their responsiblities to the other, I would not object to making a very detailed specification for quotes and in fact accept that deviation on my part may incur increased costs.

Perhaps I have been lucky in the past with my choice of electricians, plumbers and plasterers, always coming in on or before schedule and at the agreed price. Consequently mutual trust and respect have been established, I am confident that they will do a good job at a fair price and I in turn will pay up promptly.

All your comments do make sense to me thanks

 

[trowelmonkey1]

i think a happy medium is where you want to be tony, just gotta find the right tradesman and keep hold of them, sounds like you've already done that with your plumber and sparky, plasterer next

best you can do is to clue yourself up before the plasterer comes around and ask ALL the questions you need to upfront and he should be doing the same really, lie you say, mutual responsibilities here.

so pop back on the forum before you get someone round for the next quote and get clued up so you ask all the right things.

 

[TonyWarrington]

Thanks for that. I certainly don't think I am the customer from hell and I dont want to get the tradesman from hell either

Anyway just paid my plasterer for this job - he was quite disappointed I did not just let him carry on without him first giving me a quote for the rest of the property !

Has now quoted me for 17-18 days work to do dining, lounge, hall stairs and landing and 2 bedrooms only. This includes preparation etc. materials extra cost. The property is a small 2 up 2 down terrace.

First thoughts on this is that it does seem to be rather long time - although I do not have a real 'yardstick' to judge and it is not clear to me what exactly is involved in prep time materials etc.

So I am going to get some comparative quotes and be prepared to wait a little while for the right person to do the job.

What would you suggest are the right questions to ask and what are the correct answers please

 

[joe-90]

He should be quoting you for the job - not the length of time it takes him. Who cares how long it takes?

 

[trowelmonkey1]

is that just for skimming tony? or floating too?

 

[TonyWarrington]

He has not really quoted for the job IMO just the time it will take at his normal day rate + the addition of an estimate for materials of 40 bags plaster and ancillaries. My best estimate based on what he charges comes to around £3,500.

Skimming or floating - no idea. Actually know what skimming is not sure about floating. Back to knowing the questions to ask.

 

[joe-90]

How many bags?

 

[TonyWarrington]

40 honest guv!!

Perhaps I should not have been wearing this

Or am I being perceived as a free

 

[NickB_99]

My best estimate based on what he charges comes to around £3,500.

Skimming or floating - no idea. Actually know what skimming is not sure about floating. Back to knowing the questions to ask.

Like the pics

In my basic opinion -
Floating would be applying an undercoat plaster onto bare brick/blockwork. Three common variants are Bonding, Browning or Hardwall. Each with their subtle differences, but generally achieve the same purpose.

If you have patches of weak plaster, may be possible to patch bits - depends how good your plaster is already.
(Q - if you're only patching parts back to brick, is it still Floating?)

Float is a more thorough preparation for the skim coat (which you're already aware of).
An alternative for the undercoat is Drylining or Dot & Dab. This is where plasterboard sheets are stuck onto the bare brick/blockwork using dry wall adhesive. (a bit like plaster but usually white in colour and doesn't set as fast from the point of adding water. Still sets rock hard tho after 24 hrs for example!)

Floating takes a lot of plaster and is more skilled than drylining to get good results. But the float results are usually more 'solid'.

£3.5k Sounds a lot of money to me if he's only skimming. Other quotes for the same scope of work would confirm.