Cost of piling — is this fair?
- Thread starter Marc1912
- Start date
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I prepare specifications and get quotes ( well tenders) based on my specification, my requirements, and not on what the contractors want or want to caveat.
I would expect them to price according to the specification and to make such allowances in their bid as they see fit. No caveats, no one-sided terms and conditions, no get out clauses, just a single joint agreement.
BTW, no one can put unfair caveats into a contract. Terms which benefit only one party are unfair and unenforceable. I know firms do it, and state that by you signing you are in agreement to their terms, but its actually BS.
As to ground surveys. That should be part of any piled foundation survey, so the conditions are known beforehand. Services, pockets, sand seams etc are all relevant to the design.
He quoted for 8 piles at 6.5m deep and he gave you 8 piles at 8.5m deep? End of storey, he may had got his costings wrong but thats his risk.
They are the contractor. The survey would normally be done by those specifying, then provided to the contractor as part of the quoting process. If the piling firm are designing, then they survey to.
However, CDM requires a survey, albeit for safety purposes, but it's essentially the same survey as for design. Contractors should follow CDM, and clients should ensure they do.
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as I said DOMESTIC EXTENSIONS don't come with ground surveys. You are lucky if they've even identified the existing.
If you want to stave off any county court malarky which in all honesty can be a right pain...either get a surveyors report into the extra costs, they not expensive £500 including a site visit and they do a good job in fronting up a contractor or If you feel confident in your own now please kindly f off you have been paid skills then work out the expected and actual delivered cost add 10% for the buggeration factor and and make an ex gratia payment for the difference.
This places the contractor in a bind at court, as the argument of extra work is removed by admission and that just leaves a costs argument...hence the 10% buggeration factor...you have then transferred the argument to the contractor to justify why a reasonably adjusted already paid invoice is in fact unreasonable....courts do not like multiple bites at the cherry. It also removes the arbitration step as you have already done that bit, this makes the contractor or more likely his solicitor to do a risk reward sanity check...its not a small claim as its over the 5k limit...costs will be in the range of 3k to the contractor to get to court, which you could settle any time prior to the case and owe him no costs or make an offer..again no costs, the reward of court starts to look pretty small....
In your case they did do extra work and extra work must be paid for unless its a fixed fee contract...so recognise it...16m of extra piling @ £146 per m ( £7600/52m) is £2336 + 10% call it £2500. Pay that ex gratia and from experience that will be the end of that.
This places the contractor in a bind at court, as the argument of extra work is removed by admission and that just leaves a costs argument...hence the 10% buggeration factor...you have then transferred the argument to the contractor to justify why a reasonably adjusted already paid invoice is in fact unreasonable....courts do not like multiple bites at the cherry. It also removes the arbitration step as you have already done that bit, this makes the contractor or more likely his solicitor to do a risk reward sanity check...its not a small claim as its over the 5k limit...costs will be in the range of 3k to the contractor to get to court, which you could settle any time prior to the case and owe him no costs or make an offer..again no costs, the reward of court starts to look pretty small....
In your case they did do extra work and extra work must be paid for unless its a fixed fee contract...so recognise it...16m of extra piling @ £146 per m ( £7600/52m) is £2336 + 10% call it £2500. Pay that ex gratia and from experience that will be the end of that.
IME builders are given a building regs drawing to quote against - and those almost never show any detail on ground conditions.
Then how does a contractor know the ground needs piling?
How does this contractor who is quoting for a domestic extension, or the client, know that piles are required?
Somebody qualified must make that decision. That somebody then designs suitable foundations or instructs someone else to. That somebody surveys the ground as part of designing the foundations. Then that somebody provides the details to the contractor to quote.
Typo, 6.5m meant not 8.5m
Domestic clients are not expected to ensure any adherence to CDM any more than they would be expected to take on the role as Planning Supervisor as it would be completely outside their knowledge and understanding, in such a situation it is the contractor who will be required to take the lead role.
D
Deleted member 281264
If you feel the builder has genuinely incurred extra costs then you should contribute.
I'm glad I was able to avoid piling by removing a tree well in advance. Had some insane quotes and then they pull your pants down with a load of extras also the cost of designing the piles can be almost a grand alone and then there is the cost of the ring beams too.
I'm glad I was able to avoid piling by removing a tree well in advance. Had some insane quotes and then they pull your pants down with a load of extras also the cost of designing the piles can be almost a grand alone and then there is the cost of the ring beams too.
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Because that's what the neighbour did...or that's what the site agent told the architect....or the bloke over the road said so....or the archirtect prefers to spec piles over raft.
I have Never seen a ground report along with domestic extensions when quoting.
Correct.
"Use bock and beam or similar dependant on ground conditions or wot Building Control say..." standard copy and paste from most architects.
CDM applies to domestic work. The client is required to ensure that the contractor (or designer if he agrees) carries out their responsibilities under CDM
BTW, there have been no planning supervisors since 2007.
Never had this for an extension. Most of the time they quote off of drawings and google earth. For houses and above I have had ground testing done prior to quotation, but even then it depends on the area and the reason for the piling.
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