D
Deleted member 281264
I had a structural engineer that recommended a soil test as he was trying to over engineer some piles for me on an extension. I have only ever heard of a full ground investigation being done on newbuild plots
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Cost of piling — is this fair?
- Thread starter Marc1912
- Start date
Then how do you know what to quote for. Don't say you guess.
And how can your client be assured that the quote is correct and his £7600 job does not suddenly become £18,300?
95% of piling I've ever had done on extensions was due to trees rather than suspect ground conditions. Even then, and even being fairly sure the ground is good clay, the piles sometimes go down deeper than anticipated. My own 7m x 4m extension is piled due to trees - on good clay - and the piles are 8m deep.
No client, builder, architect or otherwise can be sure of what is beneath ANY piece of earth until it has been dug out.
No. You allow for a meter (depth) dig unless the drawings are explicit.Don't say you guess.
Don't tell my mate Paddy that. He sniffs the air, nibbles a bit of dirt and always, confidently, confirms it'll be fine.
Thanks to everyone, this is really helpful.
A bit more detail.
The original quote was for piles 2.5 m deep. I was very busy and distracted at the time, and just didn't notice the discrepancy. Also at the time I knew nothing whatsoever about piles, or foundations, or engineers reports. I felt the contractor was trustworthy, and he had been recommended by my architect, so I let him get on with it.
The piles were were put in four months ago. A couple of days before the piling company arrived I was asked to pay £7600 'for the piles', which I did. The piling company left and work continued. I was given an updated estimate/invoice for the job a little later which still showed a figure of £7600 for the piles, together with my payment.
The new figure of £18,300 for piles 6.5m deep was not mentioned until a couple of days ago, after I finally let the contractor go after three months of really shockingly bad work, and asked him to return the money he was holding on account (I don't think I'm being a difficult client, the work really was terrible).
I know from experience that the guy is a liar — effortless, constant and fluent with no conscience whatsoever. My suspicion is that he was concealing the true cost from me at the time the piles were put in, because he suspected (correctly) that if I knew I would cancel the project as my budget was quite tight. So he intentionally provided an incorrect estimate, thinking he would keep the project on track and recoup later. I suspect it's something like that, because a normal, non sociopathic person, if they were about to spend £10,000 of someone's money, would ^%&@ing well ask them first, or at least tell them after.
The piling contractors were on site for one day. Rich pickings. I'm in the wrong line of work if that's worth £18,000...
A bit more detail.
The original quote was for piles 2.5 m deep. I was very busy and distracted at the time, and just didn't notice the discrepancy. Also at the time I knew nothing whatsoever about piles, or foundations, or engineers reports. I felt the contractor was trustworthy, and he had been recommended by my architect, so I let him get on with it.
The piles were were put in four months ago. A couple of days before the piling company arrived I was asked to pay £7600 'for the piles', which I did. The piling company left and work continued. I was given an updated estimate/invoice for the job a little later which still showed a figure of £7600 for the piles, together with my payment.
The new figure of £18,300 for piles 6.5m deep was not mentioned until a couple of days ago, after I finally let the contractor go after three months of really shockingly bad work, and asked him to return the money he was holding on account (I don't think I'm being a difficult client, the work really was terrible).
I know from experience that the guy is a liar — effortless, constant and fluent with no conscience whatsoever. My suspicion is that he was concealing the true cost from me at the time the piles were put in, because he suspected (correctly) that if I knew I would cancel the project as my budget was quite tight. So he intentionally provided an incorrect estimate, thinking he would keep the project on track and recoup later. I suspect it's something like that, because a normal, non sociopathic person, if they were about to spend £10,000 of someone's money, would ^%&@ing well ask them first, or at least tell them after.
The piling contractors were on site for one day. Rich pickings. I'm in the wrong line of work if that's worth £18,000...
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D
Deleted member 281264
Is that £7600 for the piles and the ring beam or just piles alone? allowing for piles at only 2.5m deep is a bit ridiculous, piles will always go deeper than that imo.
This was a quote I had for 9 piles
Review of the available documentation confirms our price of £6,350 + VAT.
This estimate is based upon a piling requirement of 9 No. 89mm CHS Helical Screw Piles which shall be installed
to a specified torque refusal at approximately 6.0 metres. Prior to the commencement of piling works the ground
at each pile position needs to be excavated to the proposed formation level. This will aid to check for possible
obstructions, while also enabling the pile heads to be left at the appropriate level within the proposed concrete
ring beam/cap/slab.
Upon the completion of piling works the pile shafts will connect to the foundation through the use of either
reinforcement L bars (concreted within the protruding pile shaft) or termination top hats (which shall be bolted
to the shaft). Please note that if piles achieve torque refusal prior to the head reaching the proposed level, then
the piles will need to be trimmed down and the use of top hats may not be possible.
Our estimate assumes that the provision of a suitable working platform, welfare facilities, running water and
attendant excavator and operator are all to be provided by others at no cost to ourselves.
Additional Rates, if applicable:
• Structural Engineer’s Foundation Pile and Ground Beam Plan £600
• 6 person welfare unit chargeable at £650 per week.
• Pile top hat / termination bracket at £50 per pile.
• Pile setting out will be charged at £20 per pile.
• Abortive set ups at pile positions will be charged at £75/pile.
• Standing time will be charged at £250/hour.
• Additional design work will be charged at £85/hour.
This was a quote I had for 9 piles
Review of the available documentation confirms our price of £6,350 + VAT.
This estimate is based upon a piling requirement of 9 No. 89mm CHS Helical Screw Piles which shall be installed
to a specified torque refusal at approximately 6.0 metres. Prior to the commencement of piling works the ground
at each pile position needs to be excavated to the proposed formation level. This will aid to check for possible
obstructions, while also enabling the pile heads to be left at the appropriate level within the proposed concrete
ring beam/cap/slab.
Upon the completion of piling works the pile shafts will connect to the foundation through the use of either
reinforcement L bars (concreted within the protruding pile shaft) or termination top hats (which shall be bolted
to the shaft). Please note that if piles achieve torque refusal prior to the head reaching the proposed level, then
the piles will need to be trimmed down and the use of top hats may not be possible.
Our estimate assumes that the provision of a suitable working platform, welfare facilities, running water and
attendant excavator and operator are all to be provided by others at no cost to ourselves.
Additional Rates, if applicable:
• Structural Engineer’s Foundation Pile and Ground Beam Plan £600
• 6 person welfare unit chargeable at £650 per week.
• Pile top hat / termination bracket at £50 per pile.
• Pile setting out will be charged at £20 per pile.
• Abortive set ups at pile positions will be charged at £75/pile.
• Standing time will be charged at £250/hour.
• Additional design work will be charged at £85/hour.
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Domestic clients wouldn't have an inkling re CDM so no they are not part of the equation. Take your point about planning supervisor , should have called them CDM coordinators, bit like plumbers and heating engineers
In 2015, the CDM regulations changed to include domestic work. Whatever people think, or however badly worded, it's law.
The obligations are there for all parties and as the old adage goes 'ignorance is no defence'.
Lol.
So, his price went up after you sacked him.
As far as I understand he's holding more money that he worked for and his new pricing justifies this.
If I understood correctly, why have you paid him more than he worked for, especially considering his bad work?
Because I’m a dunce. Not used to this stuff. To begin with he came across as very engaged and helpful. Because I had been trying to find someone to do the work for a long time and he came recommended by someone I trusted and those were his terms. But basically because I’m a dunce.
I am sure it did but it still isn't incubent on a domestic client to make sure that the contractor is following CDM requirements, the duties of which usually pass to the contractor on engagement ( may alter if there are designers involved). However it is expected that the domestic client appoints a contractor who experienced in the type of work involved and will carry them out in a safe manner but there ends their involvement. Having said that if the client knew there was an electric cable going across the area where there was piling to be done(say) they would be expected to inform the contractor of such so he can incorporate such knowledge in to his CDM duties as he deems fit.
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