Could condensation on pipe cause this ?

[thetcutkid]

Hi,

We recently had a floorer in to relay some Karndeen looselay flooring in the kitchen - he took two strips up and we were all horrified at what was underneath ...

I should point out that the kitchen was completely gutted and new floor boarding put down in October 2015, so that damage from dampness has happened in less than 3 years.

With an expensive kitchen less than 3 years old I haven't leapt in with a hammer and saw, taking lumps of plasterboard out, however, I clearly need to get to the bottom of this, so today I removed the skirting board to try and get a look at the mains water pipe I know to be behind the wall in that area.

**side note** About 6 months before the kitchen went in we had a new stopcock fitted just inside the door you can see on the left hand side of the photo, with a new mains pipe feeding from the stopcock up into the airing cupboard and loft above. Prior to the refit, that side of the kitchen you can see in the pic was an outside wall with no cavity. As part of the building work, they battened the wall, installed celotex panels between the battens and then plasterboarded over the top, so the mains pipe is not channelled into the plaster or brickwork but sits in the void between the outside wall and false internal wall.

With the skirting removed, I cut some of the plasterboard away to get a look at the mains pipe and on inspection, it's completely dry, there's nothing running down the outside of the pipe - furthermore, there's no obvious signs of dampness on the brickwork of the external wall I can see...

So I'm obviously thinking what could've caused this and I keep coming back to the first winter after having the new stopcock under the stairs - I was amazed at the amount of condensation collecting on the T piece of the stopcock, to the extent that it was dripping off onto the flooring underneath and making a wet patch. I ended up putting a small margarine tub underneath to catch the drips.

Given that the section of exposed pipe in the photo is about two feet from the stopcock and the water would still be very cold in this section of the pipe in winter, do you think it possible that condensation on the mains pipe could've caused this amount of dampness ?

The damp area is about 60cm wide and extends about 30cm into the room.

 

[KenGMac]

thetcutkid, good evening.

In your second image, the one with the skirting removed it appears that there are other pipes on the right hand side of the Image, below the kitchen base unit?

If so what are these pipes serving? If they are feeding the Rads, suggest you switch on the central heating and see if there is any small escape?

Or if the pipes are hot feed to the sink??? [complete supposition] turn on the hot tap. Why? because in some [unusual] cases the water has to be hot to make the pipe leak.

Ken

 

[thetcutkid]

Hi Ken,

If you are referring to the black object on the right, that's one of the support feet for the kitchen units.

Nick

 

[endecotp]

Is the floor solid? Is it insulated at all? I’m wondering if it’s condensation onto the cold subfloor from kitchen humidity.

 

[thetcutkid]

Is the floor solid? Is it insulated at all? I’m wondering if it’s condensation onto the cold subfloor from kitchen humidity.

Sections of it are solid concrete, the section in the photo is just boarding screwed onto joists with a 2-3 foot void underneath. There's no insulation on the floor.

 

[KenGMac]

If you are referring to the black object on the right, that's one of the support feet for the kitchen units.

OK i can clearly see the post that is supporting the Kitchen unit But?

Partly embedded in the wall there appears to be a further pipe, not what I assume is the cold water feed, the pipes i think I can see are green in colour as well as what looks like an old lead pipe, at the top of the Image, as above they have been embedded within the wall plasterboard?

Ken

 

[terryplumb]

I cant see any pipes on the right. Only electric cables ,some wrapped in green/yellow insulation tape. The floor looks like plywood ,with a screed covering part of it. What appears to me to be a timber joist ( and not seemingly in very good condition ) going toward the outer wall , needs investigation. If it is sitting on brickwork below the dpc it may well be carrying damp.

 

[thetcutkid]

OK i can clearly see the post that is supporting the Kitchen unit But?

Partly embedded in the wall there appears to be a further pipe, not what I assume is the cold water feed, the pipes i think I can see are green in colour as well as what looks like an old lead pipe, at the top of the Image, as above they have been embedded within the wall plasterboard?

Ken

Hi Ken,

As Terry has mentioned, no other pipes visible in the second photo just electricity cables to the appliances on that side of the kitchen gathered together with insulating tape.

 

[thetcutkid]

I cant see any pipes on the right. Only electric cables ,some wrapped in green/yellow insulation tape. The floor looks like plywood ,with a screed covering part of it. What appears to me to be a timber joist ( and not seemingly in very good condition ) going toward the outer wall , needs investigation. If it is sitting on brickwork below the dpc it may well be carrying damp.

Hi Terry,

Yes the boarding is a marine ply style board. The grey areas are what I assumed were an adhesive for the looselay flooring. I wasn't aware any joists are visible in the second photo, where d'you mean exactly?

 

[terryplumb]

To the right of the pipe is a light coloured piece of wood ( maybe ,not sure) which is vertical and would be behind the skirting. To the right of that is what I think is a joist ,which the plywood would sit on ,so its horizontal. Does that make sense ?

 

[thetcutkid]

To the right of the pipe is a light coloured piece of wood ( maybe ,not sure) which is vertical and would be behind the skirting. To the right of that is what I think is a joist ,which the plywood would sit on ,so its horizontal. Does that make sense ?

Hi Terry,

The light brown area to the right of the pipe is actually the remains of some tiling that were covered in an adhesive years ago and covered with a hardboard wood effect panelling. The darker brown area to the right of this is a tiny piece of this panelling. As far as I know the joists actually run from left to right across the area photographed.

 

[terryplumb]

OK ,that rules out the possibility of travelling damp. I notice there is a big difference in the two pics with regard to the density of the mould. I assume it is laying on the surface and you have easily removed some if it , by chance or on purpose. Anyway ,if you can remove it and the plywood below is sound its obviously not inherent or penetrating from below. Is this so ?

 

[flameport]

I was amazed at the amount of condensation collecting on the T piece of the stopcock, to the extent that it was dripping off onto the flooring underneath and making a wet patch. I ended up putting a small margarine tub underneath to catch the drips.

That is a description of water leaking, not condensation.

 

[dilalio]

We had a job a few years back in New Bond Street, clothing store being fitted out and reports of a leak in the basement.
We considered codensation but there was so much water and damage to building fabric, that it didn't seem plausible and so we carried out tests and investigated further over a few days.

It was indeed condensation... The 2" lead main wound itself in and out of the brickwork, from the old coal chute (under the road) to the back of the basement and up to the 4 floors above. Everywhere it emerged from the wall, it was soaked... Condensation beads on a pipe and immediately starts to reappear once wiped dry, if the dew point persists, this results in the beads coalescing and gravity takes over to form a trickle, gathering partners on the way down to form a drip at the lowest point... in this case it was literally pouring off lead at various points.

If you are able to wipe the stain away then I'd say it's indicative of water running down from above and forming a mould, rather than damp penetration from below... As @terryplumb mentioned above.

The main running, uninsulated, in a void between exterior brick/block work and internal thermal panelling is a prime suspect for condensation.

I'd expose as much of it as possible and insulate it now, unless you can wait until winter and monitor it at the point where the floor has become stained.

 

[thetcutkid]

That is a description of water leaking, not condensation.

Definitely no leak on the stopcock.