cpc on lighting circuits

[ericmark]

Yes sure, I have had bulb holders with the double square on them.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes sure, I have had bulb holders with the double square on them.

Hmmmm. Were the contacts 'touchable' and unswitched (within the holder)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

It was a plain simple bulb holder BA22d not the safety type. I will guess it is marked to show can be used with 2 core cable, with a brass version it would need 3 core to earth it, however with a BA22d the bulb has three connections, so it in theory could required an earth, seen it with BA15d and BAY15d but not BA22d but that does not mean not available.

In real terms I would agree should not be needed, however technology changes and just because no bulb needing an earth now that does not mean no bulb needing an earth in future.

The other problem is where some thing is made using a class II item, when the whole is class I, I had it with a mag mount drill, the drill was class II but the mag mount base was class I, and it seems if had be PAT tested as a class II as had the double square.

The same with light fitting, you can get the metal tubes lined with a polythene sleeve inside so although metal classed as class II, but without it would be class I but the bulb holder has been changed so it has the double square sign.

 

[JohnW2]

It was a plain simple bulb holder BA22d not the safety type. I will guess it is marked to show can be used with 2 core cable ...

Your guess may well be right, but it's surely fairly ridiculous (and maybe 'wrong') to put a "Class II" marking on it, isn't it?

If it were anything but a bulb holder, I imagine that you would probably agree with me that it would be totally ridiculous for it to be "marked Class II" if there were a hole in it big enough to allow fingers to touch live parts (without even any intervening 'basic insulation'), wouldn't you? If so, why is it less ridiculous for a bulb holder?

I wonder if anyone else has seen a 'traditional' B22d holder marked as 'Class II'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[RF Lighting]

Image from google

 

[EFLImpudence]

Isn't that just a mistake?

What if it had a sticker saying it was Class 1?

If it did not have that sticker or was marked Class 1, would it have to be earthed?

 

[JohnW2]

Isn't that just a mistake?

As I said, it just seems plain ridiculous to me - how on earth can something be 'Class II' if there is not even 'basic insulation' (let alone 'double or reinforced' insulation) between prying fingers and live parts?!

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndyPRK]

if it had a lamp fitted, would you call it double insulated then ?

 

[JohnW2]

if it had a lamp fitted, would you call it double insulated then ?

Well, IF the construction of the lamp were such that it qualified as 'double or reinforced insulation' (between live parts and prying fingers) then I suppose it might but, to my mind the product as manufactured and sold (and marked), itself, certainly can't be.

Kind Regards, John

 

[RF Lighting]

What about these products?

 

[JohnW2]

... What about these products?

You will presumably know my view from what I've already said, so perhaps I should ask you what you think?

Both those products, as sold, allow (if plugged in and switched on) free access of a finger to live parts, without even any intervening 'basic insulation' - so do you really believe that they are reasonably (or correctly) described/marked as 'Class II'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I note there is a sticker on the cable as well.

I think John must have been correct all along, then.

There must be more to this Class 1 or 2 than meets the eye.

 

[RF Lighting]

You will presumably know my view from what I've already said, so perhaps I should ask you what you think?

Both those products, as sold, allow (if plugged in and switched on) free access of a finger to live parts, without even any intervening 'basic insulation' - so do you really believe that they are reasonably (or correctly) described/marked as 'Class II'?

Kind Regards, John

I genuinely don’t know. I’ve found examples of 3 different manufacturers all selling BC lamp holders marked as being class II, and I’ve seen it on others out in the field as well.

They can’t all be wrong can they?

What makes something class II? Is it that in the event of failure of basic insulation the equipment remains safe to touch and will not become energised, rather than the parts which are designed to be live and it is normal and expected for them to be so can not be accessed?

 

[JohnW2]

I think John must have been correct all along, then. There must be more to this Class 1 or 2 than meets the eye.

Well, as I have said countless times, it has always 'met my eye' that there are some major deficiencies in (what I understand of) this business.

I think one of the problems is that, whilst we have a marking for Class II, we don't for Class I. As I see it, that must mean one of two things ...

... firstly, it could mean that anything without a Class II marking is, by default, deemed to be Class I - but that would be ridiculous because there would then be many things deemed to be Class I which didn't have any exposed conductive parts which could be earthed.

... secondly, if one wants to avoid that 'ridiculous' possibility, the absence of a Class II marking would presumably have to mean that it was "either Class I OR 'something else' " - which obviously begs the question of what that 'something else' is, whether it is 'allowed' and what requirements/regulations relate to it!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

As to: would it be Class 2 when a 'lamp' is fitted?

If it were a filament bulb then the glass could hardly be described as double or reinforced insulation, could it?