Creda night storage heater not working - help !!

[electricalkid]

I've got a Creda storage heater model 79161 which has stopped working. I thought it might be the fuse burnt out at the fuse box, but ive tested that and its ok. I thought there may be another fuse at the wall switch but there isn't. I can only think there is a fuse built into the heater itself.
Can anyone help please ? - if there is a fuse built into the heater is it soldiered or what, and where would I look for it and could I test it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[RF Lighting]

Does the switch next to the heater have a noen light indicator on it?

Does this still light up when the switch is turned on?

Are there other heaters in your house?

Do these still work?

Are you aware that the heaters will only be live during off peak hours? (Typically 7pm untill 6am ish)

 

[electricalkid]

No - there is no neon light on the wall switch. It's merely a on/off rocker switch without the neon. I'm assuming that the switch isn't faulty

I do have other storage heaters in the house all working perfectly - I am aware they only heat overnight. The heater has been working ok and has just now failed to heat at all.

I've been looking on the internet and there appears to be a thermal fuse link which I guess could have blown - is that poss ? I can buy one of these for £8 +/- on e bay but not sure whether to or not as it might not be this thats causing the probs.

 

[Driller]

There is a thermal fuse in the top by the control knobs.

To get at it make sure the heater is turned off, even if it is during the day.

Pull off the two control knobs carefully or they will break.

There are two or three screws holding the front cover on, they are right at the bottom of the heater.

Once these are off, lift the front and top carefully up and off.

at the top right you will see a ceramic terminal block.

The thermal fuse connects this to the input of the thermostat.

It will be obvious if it has melted.

It's easy to replace. If the heater is 87-91 it's part no. 0850687.
or 91-97 part no. 0851054.

Your local supplier should have them, if not Creda spares is on 08700 102829. (mods I hope I haven't broken the rules).

If after you replace it the fuse goes again it may be the input thermostat and it would be worth getting an electrician in to check it over.

 

[RF Lighting]

Other common faults to check:

Possibly a loose or burnt connection in the CU / switch / heater

Possible failed element(s) inside the heater

There my also be a resettable cutout intergrated into the thermostat (input control knob)

Possibly a worn or burnt out switch (Not often the problem though)

 

[electricalkid]

Many thanks for that Driller excellent reply - I will have a look see tomorrow. My concern will be is that if I replace the fuse and it blows again thats a tenner down the drain - suppose its worth a try and as you say if it goes again will have to get another input thermo - cheers.

 

[electricalkid]

Thanks RF - yep, did think about burnt out elements but as there is no heat at all, that would mean all the elements have failed similtaneously - me thinks not. This heater is in a house which I rent out so I will be over there tomorrow for a look see. thanks again fellas

 

[RF Lighting]

Electrical kid, do you have any electrical testers?

My first test would be to check there is mains at the input terminals inside the heater (During off peak hours)

It is possible that one or more elements have failed over time, but the heater was still warm with the last element (Just not as hot as normal, but no one has noticed as the heater is not stone cold)

This is more common than you might expect!

 

[Driller]

A tenner spent now on a fuse is better than £45.00 ish for a new thermostat if you dont need it.

Have you been placing items on the unit to dry or to warm as that's a classic cause.

I do loads in the holiday lets up here as people dont seem to bother if it's not their own.

If you go to www.applied-energy.com and the select the creda pages you can access all the spares for your heater by using the model number you have.

There is a good exploded diagram and one of the internals as well.

 

[electricalkid]

heres an update lads !! - first I checked the switch next to the heater and that was fine. Took off the cover to the heater (thanks Driller) and found the thermal link was ok (tested with continuity tester) Then bypassed the circuit by disconnecting the incoming wires (from the consumer unit) at the switch next to the heater and replaced them with an extension plugging the other end into a live socket. Bingo, the heater starts to heat up on all 4 elements !!. So I guess that proves theres nothing wrong with the heater itself.

Again I checked the 2 fuses at the economy 7 consumer unit (there are only 2 as the house only has 2 night storeage heaters) both fuses are fine. Then took the cover off the consumer unit to check the wiring, all looks fine and dandy.

At this point I have to scratch my head - as it appears the only fault is that when the economy 7 trips in power travels to one heater but not the other - would there be a break in the wiring going to one of the heaters ?? - suppose my next check is to test for continuity from the consumer unit to the switch by the heater. But if it is continuious what the heck could it be ??

 

[Driller]

Did you check the fuses with a continuity tester? or just visual.

Are they cartridge fuses or rewireables?

Sometimes on cartridge fuse holders the spring contacts that hold the fuse get weak and dont grip it.

If that's ok has anybody done any drilling or nailing anywhere that may have damaged the cable.

If not disconnect the cable from the CU end and do a continuity check of the fixed wiring.

If all is ok there then put the fuse and holder of the good circuit in the duff one and vice versa (assuming they are the same rating) and let it run to see if the fault changes over.

 

[electricalkid]

Driller - yes I tested the fuses with a continuity tester, they are the cartridge type - infact I merely touched both ends of the metal prongs of the cartridge with the fuse in place so I know it's ok

As for drilling or nailing - as I said before this fault is in a house I rent out and it looks like the guy who just vacated did nothing whatsoever regarding drilling or maintenance of any description

Tomorrow I will try switching the wires round as you suggest and continuity test them - watch this space - cheers

 

[electricalkid]

another update. Checked the fixed circuit from the CU to the wall switch both pos and neg and they are ok. At that point, you would believe that the fault lies a) at the switch or b) along the cable from the switch to the heater or c) the heater itself. But if you look back a couple of posts ago you will see I by-passed the fixed circuit and attached a plug in wire direct to the switch and the heater started up.

So it almost seems that when the meter switches over at 01.00am to eco7 no power actually travels along the fixed circuit - pointing to a fault at the cu but ironically the other heater in the lounge fires up fine both are fed from the sale CU. I really feel that I should be "on site" when the economy 7 trips in to check that power is going to the plug. Although the house is currently empty, I live in the next county and its a trek to travel there in the middle of the night just to see if power is live (anyway i'm scared of the dark)

I'm off on hols on Thurs for 3 weeks and whilst i'm away my new tenants move in. I have to hope the weather keeps warm and that they don't want to use the storage heater. Driller, if you live near Nuneaton you can come and have a squint if you like !!

 

[Driller]

I'll come if you pay the mileage, but I'm up in North Wales.

Did you swop the fuse holders over just to check that the holder isn't faulty?

I know you checked it with a continuity tester but it may be failing under load.

 

[crystal ball]

I had a problem with a storage heater last month, worked under test but not when E7 was switched, turned out to be the switch, ok when i had it hanging out of the back box, but as soon as i screwed it back it went open circuit, thank god for voltsticks