Deluded

[securespark]

I've been reading a lot in the press about people complaining that Labour are still to blame for most of the problems this country has, despite the Cons having been in office for as many years as they have.

On the net yesterday, I read a news article about someone knocking Labour for (amongst other things) using PFIs and putting us in a bad financial position as a result.

But who invented PFIs?

 

[Mottie]

I've been reading a lot in the press about people complaining that Labour are still to blame for most of the problems this country has, despite the Cons having been in office for as many years as they have.

On the net yesterday, I read a news article about someone knocking Labour for (amongst other things) using PFIs and putting us in a bad financial position as a result.

But who invented PFIs?

Who invented the gun? Do you blame them if somebody is killed by someone using one or is the person using it to blame?

 

[JP_]

The right wing media is strong. A friend was telling me how he was sat in a waiting room somewhere in Hants and a group of old ladies were talking politics. They all agreed that our problems were caused by Labour and Putin, and that the best thing for the UK would be to have Boris back.

We've now had over 12 years of Tory rule. And half of that was without Brexit or Covid. So there really is nobody else to blame.

Reminds me of when Labour took over from the Tories in 1964: A note left by Tory Reginald Maudling to his Labour successor James Callaghan in 1964: "Good luck, old cock ... Sorry to leave it in such a mess."

 

[gas112]

look at the amount of PFI`s that were awarded during labours time in power and look at how much they are still costing

 

[^woody^]

Brown was a key instigator of PFI deals because he had no authority and even less charisma and just wanted to be popular.

We had Blair trying to be a Tory-lite and now many Tories trying to be Liberal Democrats.

However, the problem is that we have had politicians from all parties that ranged from mediocre to complete shiite for many years now.
These are guided by short term policies (or no policies) to secure their own positions not the good of the country, and more recently are controlled by the "backlash" of the social media mob who shout loudest, rather than devising policies and making decisions and sticking them.

So we are in a position where we vote for the one we dislike the least. Curiously, this is not UK specific.

 

[Justin Passing]

The right wing media is strong. A friend was telling me how he was sat in a waiting room somewhere in Hants and a group of old ladies were talking politics. They all agreed that our problems were caused by Labour and Putin, and that the best thing for the UK would be to have Boris back.

We've now had over 12 years of Tory rule. And half of that was without Brexit or Covid. So there really is nobody else to blame.

Reminds me of when Labour took over from the Tories in 1964: A note left by Tory Reginald Maudling to his Labour successor James Callaghan in 1964: "Good luck, old cock ... Sorry to leave it in such a mess."

And of Gordon Brown's chief sec to the treasury Liam Byrne saying in 2010 that there was "no money left". George Osborne had that to deal with.


Odd innit, despite everyone in the country knowing, and telling them how to do the job, it's the tiny majority who actually get the job , who have no idea.

How can we keep being so unlucky?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Brown was a key instigator of PFI deals because he had no authority and even less charisma and just wanted to be popular.

We had Blair trying to be a Tory-lite and now many Tories trying to be Liberal Democrats.

However, the problem is that we have had politicians from all parties that ranged from mediocre to complete shiite for many years now.
These are guided by short term policies (or no policies) to secure their own positions not the good of the country, and more recently are controlled by the "backlash" of the social media mob who shout loudest, rather than devising policies and making decisions and sticking them.

So we are in a position where we vote for the one we dislike the least. Curiously, this is not UK specific.

I agree 100% but also wonder if it's a consequence of living in a democracy? Before anyone starts, yes I know there's a side debate about how democratic we are, however you hopefully get my point.

Mum was a teacher. Towards the end of her career, she got increasingly disillusioned by 'tinkering' of processes by 'experts' from local council and government. 'Do it this way' then x months or a year later 'no start doing it that way' then x months or a year later 'actually can you start doing it another way' etc.

Unless we have proper cross-party (set in stone) agreements on long term policies e.g. around core infrastructure, healthcare, education and so on, politicians and others will always have an easy 'out' by saying 'we're still clearing up the mess created by ...'

 

[Pat ex]

Covid and the War.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

This is the out SNP will use for years/decades if they achieve 'independence' for Scotland.

The year is 2050. Scotland has been 'independent' for 25 years. Things have gone t1ts up economically. I can hear the SNP now ...

'These significant changes can take two or three generations to bed in, we need to be patient.'

 

[Mottie]

Odd innit, despite everyone in the country knowing, and telling them how to do the job, it's the tiny majority who actually get the job , who have no idea.

Trouble is, they’re too busy posting on DIY forums about what shouldn’t have been done to go into politics to tell how they should be done. Have you seen the posts from those on the Tory cabinet telling us how to fit a boiler, check electrics, paint walls, insulate homes or fix cars? Me neither.

 

[Pat ex]

Trouble is, they’re too busy posting on DIY forums about what shouldn’t have been done to go into politics to tell how they should be done. Have you seen the posts from those on the Tory cabinet telling us how to fit a boiler, check electrics, paint walls, insulate homes or fix cars? Me neither.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It doesn't make them experts.

 

[JonathanM]

PFI is a bit more understandable if you consider the appalling state of the schools and hospitals Labour inherited in 1997. Leaking classrooms and children being taught in portacabins. PFI was an easy and indirect way for Labour to pay for what needed to be done, whilst avoiding putting up taxes, or borrowing more; they were obsessed with not doing those things in the early days.

 

[Notch7]

PFI is a bit more understandable if you consider the appalling state of the schools and hospitals Labour inherited in 1997. Leaking classrooms and children being taught in portacabins. PFI was an easy and indirect way for Labour to pay for what needed to be done, whilst avoiding putting up taxes, or borrowing more; they were obsessed with not doing those things in the early days.

PFI is probably a symptom of the short termism of politics -if you want to win elections spend money on public infrastructure like hospitals and borrow money for future generations to pay for it

 

[Notch7]

Trouble is, they’re too busy posting on DIY forums about what shouldn’t have been done to go into politics to tell how they should be done. Have you seen the posts from those on the Tory cabinet telling us how to fit a boiler, check electrics, paint walls, insulate homes or fix cars? Me neither.

we are all allowed to discuss things, doesnt matter if we cant directly change them

 

[gant]

PFI is corruption.
I see Patricia Hewitt has been brought aboard the gravy train to help the Tories.
I suppose that's what they call cross party agreement.lol