Departurtes

[duncanhead]

There's scope for using RCBOS on non-cpc lighting circuits, but I believe the niceic guidance phrases it "if the customer cannot be convinced of the need to rewire". IE a very last resort, now like RF says you're the installer and client, how's it gonna look that you couldn't convince yourself to do the job to the basic minimum standard?

cause its a cost of at least £3000, not financially viable as been out of work for 2 years.... I'm sure that the DWP won't give me a crisis loan for this "project" !

 

[duncanhead]

I do not intend to sell this property for at least 20 years....

In which case your argument that it isn't worth doing it properly is complete b*****ks.

cause my DI assesor (actually local authorities technical organisation) told me that it's OK,(to proceed)

Well he was wrong. But I'm confused - does your council carry out competency inspections for one of the schemes?

but I thought that I'd put it on this Forum,

Why? Were you hoping that you'd get advice saying "go ahead"?

You already knew that NICEIC say "don't do it", and via association so probably do the ECA and SELECT, but you didn't care for that advice, so you went looking for some which you did like.

And having not found any here, where will you try next?

however I won't use this for my elecsa rating case

I wish you would - but you clearly think that ELECSA won't agree with you either. Doesn't your reluctance to put it forward for assessment bring it home to you that what you propose is unacceptable?

I hope that whatever you put forward for assessment you crash and burn, because you have no business thinking that you can become an electrician.

Well send me £3000 and I'll do it properly... as I stated I was told (in good faith) by the testing Organisation to proceed and still think that 80% is better than 0%, it's for my own piece of mind to have RCDs/RCBOs at my home

 

[RF Lighting]

How much is the life of your wife or children worth?

I've rewired countless houses, and never know the making good bill be anywhere near that sort of money.

 

[Click-Sure]

I hope you get my ELECSA assessor.

He loves a laugh.

 

[Spark123]

Which part says to leave the circuit disconnected? The last page that has the chart on has that if the tennant refuses corrective action if they have something which isn't safe on the circuit.

page 7 (of eight ) ....

I suggest you re-read the chart carefully and you will see where they are coming from.
I read it as saying if there is something dangerous and the tennant refuses remedial action to leave the circuit disconnected.
Saying that, it smells of an old installation anyway so is probably not far of due being rewired.

 

[duncanhead]

How much is the life of your wife or children worth?

I've rewired countless houses, and never know the making good bill be anywhere near that sort of money.

The construction of my property is that many rooms have no access to the "ceiling space" to install a cpc would mean removing the (flat) roofs and/or removing the ceiling boards etc etc 10 days work + materials etc etc = £3000 , that's the bottom line, if you really mean don't do it then I won't but my real personal belief is that as stated an newer CU with RCDs/RCBOs is MUCh better that wot I got now...

 

[duncanhead]

Which part says to leave the circuit disconnected? The last page that has the chart on has that if the tennant refuses corrective action if they have something which isn't safe on the circuit.

page 7 (of eight ) ....

I suggest you re-read the chart carefully and you will see where they are coming from.
I read it as saying if there is something dangerous and the tennant refuses remedial action to leave the circuit disconnected.
Saying that, it smells of an old installation anyway so is probably not far of due being rewired.

it's all good quality PVC, except the local auhority "signed off" the works accepting that no lighting cpc was acceptable - perhaps I should sue my local council...

 

[hairyben]

There's scope for using RCBOS on non-cpc lighting circuits, but I believe the niceic guidance phrases it "if the customer cannot be convinced of the need to rewire". IE a very last resort, now like RF says you're the installer and client, how's it gonna look that you couldn't convince yourself to do the job to the basic minimum standard?

cause its a cost of at least £3000, not financially viable as been out of work for 2 years.... I'm sure that the DWP won't give me a crisis loan for this "project" !

Where does £3000 come from?

couple of rolls of lighting cable @ ~ £20/roll

dozen or so cheap switches, plus boxes etc £30 or so.

bag of plaster ~£10.

Times free if you've not much work on, so about £80

 

[duncanhead]

I do not intend to sell this property for at least 20 years....

In which case your argument that it isn't worth doing it properly is complete b*****ks. And by which time, of course, the wiring will be 65-70 years old...

cause my DI assesor (actually local authorities technical organisation) told me that it's OK,(to proceed)

Well he was wrong. But I'm confused - does your council carry out competency inspections for one of the schemes?

but I thought that I'd put it on this Forum,

Why? Were you hoping that you'd get advice saying "go ahead"?

You already knew that NICEIC say "don't do it", and via association so probably do the ECA and SELECT, but you didn't care for that advice, so you went looking for some which you did like.

And having not found any here, where will you try next?

however I won't use this for my elecsa rating case

I wish you would - but you clearly think that ELECSA won't agree with you either. Doesn't your reluctance to put it forward for assessment bring it home to you that what you propose is unacceptable?

I hope that whatever you put forward for assessment you crash and burn, because you have no business thinking that you can become an electrician.

I don't like this comment, and it's not constructive, I'm after help...

 

[Click-Sure]

it's all good quality PVC, except the local auhority "signed off" the works accepting that no lighting cpc was acceptable - perhaps I should sue my local council...

I've got a really good quality wheelbarrow.

Unfortunately, it has no wheel, thus rendering it about as much use as a chocolate fire quard.[/quote]

 

[hairyben]

Roof boards don't need to be removed. Cables can usaually be fished down joist runs, going across the joist run means a little hole each side of the joist, fishing the cable between them and clipping it to the beam.

Or, use coving/ coving trunking.

 

[Spark123]

it's all good quality PVC, except the local auhority "signed off" the works accepting that no lighting cpc was acceptable - perhaps I should sue my local council...

If it isn't dangerous by the omission of the CPC then I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. Obviously there are one or two departures in BS7671 from this.
Like I said, I think you need to re-read page 7 carefully to see where it is coming from. It does not say that if you don't have a CPC that you must leave it disconnected.
It says that if there is no CPC, a dangerous situation such as class 1 fittings and the customer refuses remedial action then to leave it disconnected.

 

[Click-Sure]

Ok then duncanhead,

I can see your after help and advice, that is the spirit of this forum. I don't normally get involved on what looks like from the surface an episode of 'flaming'. However, your asking questions that someone looking to gain acredditation to a 'Part P' scheme should very definately allready know. Your getting abuse not because people are deliberately being unhelpfull but because you need to be told such things for your own good.

ELECSA do offer a pre-assesment site visit, you may find this helpfull before shelling out the full assesment amount. It does come at a price, but nobody can tell you bettewr if you are fit to join up to their scheme than them, give them a call on monday. 0845 634 9043

 

[duncanhead]

it's all good quality PVC, except the local auhority "signed off" the works accepting that no lighting cpc was acceptable - perhaps I should sue my local council...

If it isn't dangerous by the omission of the CPC then I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. Obviously there are one or two departures in BS7671 from this.
Like I said, I think you need to re-read page 7 carefully to see where it is coming from. It does not say that if you don't have a CPC that you must leave it disconnected.
It says that if there is no CPC, a dangerous situation such as class 1 fittings and the customer refuses remedial action then to leave it disconnected.

I'll read it thouroghly and properly and consult with the Power Service Organisation as to what they will/might do then (on Monday) (on "inspection after the works) but I had a 20 min consultation with a senior electrician and he stated go-ahead and disclose the departures, there will be no problem as most 30year + homes have departures anyway...

 

[RF Lighting]

Do you have any class 1 fittings or accessories on these circuits?