Departurtes

[duncanhead]

Just a quick note, the commentary was written on the 16th edn regs. We are now on the 17th edn regs.

yea, I saw that too...

 

[duncanhead]

Let's pray that you are not a practising Electrician

not sure what u exactly mean, as in doin the work/services now or will/may be in the future, it's the latter BTW...

and also the laws of physics havn't really changed (well from a few microseconds after the big bang -(as in the making of the universe) so Ohms law, Einstiens therory (both general and special) still apply and any other stuff relavent to electrics and this stuff still apply, it's just the regs and red tape that change, I really only wanted to use my backyard particle accelerator a bit more but really didn't want to put it on the LIF... !! - and to be quite honest it's actually a LEP synchrotron (but I never told anyone 'bout that)

 

[JonoPashley]

What he means is what you want to do is unsafe and would make ineffective important safety improvements brought in with the 17th edition regs.

 

[duncanhead]

What he means is what you want to do is unsafe and would make ineffective important safety improvements brought in with the 17th edition regs.

yea I know, but my reconning is that any safety improvements are better than absolutely NONE in operation at all, and it's at my domestic home, so i am the "client" as well, please re-assure you all if this was a client then this Forum would be acadamic, I'd charge for my assessment and recommendations etc and give the required costs and then up to the customer to order my services... or not, but observations/recommendations and noted departures and safety concerns would certainly be in the correspondence.

 

[XtraRaptor]

but I thought that I'd put it on this Forum,

Why? Were you hoping that you'd get advice saying "go ahead"?

You already knew that NICEIC say "don't do it", and via association so probably do the ECA and SELECT, but you didn't care for that advice, so you went looking for some which you did like.

And having not found any here, where will you try next?




I reckon he will be asking the same question right now over a glass of "wife beater" and getting the full approval to go ahead...

 

[duncanhead]

but I thought that I'd put it on this Forum,

Why? Were you hoping that you'd get advice saying "go ahead"?

You already knew that NICEIC say "don't do it", and via association so probably do the ECA and SELECT, but you didn't care for that advice, so you went looking for some which you did like.

And having not found any here, where will you try next?




I reckon he will be asking the same question right now over a glass of "wife beater" and getting the full approval to go ahead...

As I stated I was advised to proceed (if I wished) (after stating the known departures) and took the advice of the senior electrician at the Power Service Organisation that my requests/requirements for this project was "in order" with the stated departures, I just thought that I'd air it in this Forum, I'm not trying to try "somewhere next" - just was looking for conformation, but what I actually got was 50% negative replies and some really helpful chaps, I take the "wife beater" comment as a "tounge in cheek" remark as it's little offence to me but NOT quite PC correct (and is a serious matter indeed - Slanderous, but noted)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

yea I know, but my reconning is that any safety improvements are better than absolutely NONE in operation at all,

I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my
signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design,
Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my
knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008 amended to .......... (date) except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:

I really don't think that "well it's better than it was before" gives you sufficient justification to sign a declaration like that accompanied by a list of major departures.

and it's at my domestic home, so i am the "client" as well.

Doesn't matter - there isn't a different certificate, or a more lax set of regulations, for work in your own home.

 

[duncanhead]

yea I know, but my reconning is that any safety improvements are better than absolutely NONE in operation at all,

I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my
signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design,
Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my
knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008 amended to .......... (date) except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:

I really don't think that "well it's better than it was before" gives you sufficient justification to sign a declaration like that accompanied by a list of major departures.

and it's at my domestic home, so i am the "client" as well.

Doesn't matter - there isn't a different certificate, or a more lax set of regulations, for work in your own home.

but I wasn't responsible for the design and construction of the wiring, only the change of the CU (and supply feeds) - someone else did this 40 years ago (design & construction) and it allows (the certificate) for departures... I'd only sign off the design and construction to "alteration" ie the CCU and carry out the necessary tests to the previously installed wiring etc to establish a "baseline" reference point and establish any departures etc

 

[ban-all-sheds]

131.8!!!

 

[duncanhead]

131.8!!!

yes, I've got this 3 times, not sure where exactly where your 131.8 is in this pdf, but an all encompasing document with special safety notices for switches/circuits etc etc, I could make those (print out) in 20 mins (in full colour as required) and place them on every switch / light fitting etc etc / RCBOs... and then it's i guess down to anyone who disregards the safety notices (PS do these need to be in Polish as well ) PPS I've nothing against diversity (as in the sense of culture) - so don't go there!! this comment is in humur, some of my best workers are Polish , and my local recruitment organisation (for construction) has ALL of it's notices (even the loos) in Polish...!?

 

[jockspark]

no addition or alteration,temporary or permanent, shall be made to an existing
installation unless it has been ascertained that the rating and the condition
of any existing equipment, including that of the distributor,will be adequate
for the altered circumstances,furthermore ,the earthing and bonding arrangements, if necessery for the protective measure applied for the
safety of the addition or alteration, shall be adequate

131.8
for anyone who does not have access to bs 7671 at this time

 

[ban-all-sheds]

not sure where exactly where your 131.8 is in this pdf

Err....

I am not Part P etc qualified, but are using the upgrade of my CCU as a "case" I have all the necessary equipment Megger 1552 etc)

Don't you think that by now you should also have a copy of the Wiring Regulations?

How did you plan to certify that your CU replacement complied with them if you don't know what they are?

And I've been meaning to ask...

took the advice of the senior electrician at the Power Service Organisation

What is this "Power Service Organisation" (with capital letters) that you keep mentioning?

 

[duncanhead]

not sure where exactly where your 131.8 is in this pdf

Err....

I am not Part P etc qualified, but are using the upgrade of my CCU as a "case" I have all the necessary equipment Megger 1552 etc)

Don't you think that by now you should also have a copy of the Wiring Regulations?

How did you plan to certify that your CU replacement complied with them if you don't know what they are?

And I've been meaning to ask...

took the advice of the senior electrician at the Power Service Organisation

What is this "Power Service Organisation" (with capital letters) that you keep mentioning?

Ok, yes I will get a more recent copy of the regs. it's on the list, I know that the new CCU is compliant ), the 1552 Megger is current (as regarding to standards tests) and that the latest forms specify exactly the tests - and results, and I've spoken to ELECSA, WYLEX, Megger etc etc many times over the last few months about various queries etc etc and have noted the current wiring regulations requirements (as queries have arisen)

I've been requested to provide the full tests of the new CCU and a test of the existing circuitry (with disclosed departures) which I have 75% of them already (as I wouldn't know that R2 didn't exist for some lighting)

The Power Service organisation is an independant company who (based in Potters Bar) operate/co-operate with local Government bodies/ Councils etc (Building Control) etc and are thier Authoritive body etc for testing/checking conformity etc etc for them (the local Councils) on Electrical works.

what one needs to consider is the "wealth" and "mass" of official material and what actually one does "in practice" and what it means, that's why I use the web, email and telephone conversations to clarify exactly what things really mean and what/how in practice this applies - they are the "experts" and so I talk to them - and if they are to "sign off" any works that I test then make sure that any "projects" are do-able/viable etc etc, common sense, basic stuff eh?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ok, yes I will get a more recent copy of the regs. it's on the list,

OK, then...

130-07-01!!!

I know that the new CCU is compliant ),

No it's not.

I've been requested to provide the full (current) tests of the new CCU and a test of the existing circuitry (with disclosed departures)

Requested by whom?

For what purpose?

The Power Service organisation is an independant company who (based in Potters Bar) operate/co-operate with local Government bodies/ Councils etc (Building Control) etc and are thier Authoritive body etc for testing/checking conformity etc etc for them (the local Councils) on Electrical works.

No - if they've told you that it is OK to go ahead and replace a CU when you are clearly not competent to do so, and knowing that even if you were competent any such replacement would result in a serious breach of the Wiring Regulations then they are not "authoritive" (sic), they're a bunch of dangerous buffoons.

 

[duncanhead]

Ok, yes I will get a more recent copy of the regs. it's on the list,

OK, then...

130-07-01!!!

I know that the new CCU is compliant ),

No it's not.

I've been requested to provide the full (current) tests of the new CCU and a test of the existing circuitry (with disclosed departures)

Requested by whom?

For what purpose?

The Power Service organisation is an independant company who (based in Potters Bar) operate/co-operate with local Government bodies/ Councils etc (Building Control) etc and are thier Authoritive body etc for testing/checking conformity etc etc for them (the local Councils) on Electrical works.

No - if they've told you that it is OK to go ahead and replace a CU when you are clearly not competent to do so, and knowing that even if you were competent any such replacement would result in a serious breach of the Wiring Regulations then they are not "authoritive" (sic), they're a bunch of dangerous buffoons.

Well you don't actually know the model... and WYLEX will disagree - take them to court then !!!

I can't comment on your comment on The Power Service etc, they appear to be "very competant" and helpful, and if you site them "as a bunch of dangerous buffoons - quote) " then I'd telephone them 1st thing on Monday to explain/discuss and mitigate a "case" against you, Your statement "not competant to do so" is in question, seeking advice is NOT a sign of incompendancy, but disclosure for seeking advice from "seasoned professionals" is a sign of professionalism, (who I take it you are, (however the type and nature of your comments seems one to differ from this conclusion)
I've just used this Forum to seek professional advice, and welcome all comments