Departurtes

[jockspark]

what page is 130-07-01 on chapter 13 starts on page 14 ?
why are you quoting regs to the op he does not yet have a copy

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well you don't actually know the model... and WYLEX will disagree - take them to court then !!!

What does the model of the CU have to do with it?

And since when did Wylex acquire authority in relation to the Wiring Regulations?

And given that even a plug will come with instructions saying "if in doubt consult a qualified electrician" I really find it impossible to believe that Wylex would answer the sort of questions you'd have been asking and tell you that it was OK for you to go ahead and install the CU.

I can't comment on your comment on The Power Service etc, they appear to be "very competant" and helpful, and if you site them "as a bunch of dangerous buffoons - quote) " then I'd telephone them 1st thing on Monday to explain/discuss and mitigate a "case" against you,

Bring it on - I'd love to see them explain why they told someone like you that you could ignore the Wiring Regulations.

Your statement "not competant to do so" is in question, seeking advice is NOT a sign of incompendancy,

Not per se, I agree.

But your level of competence is disclosed by the questions you've asked, and by the statements you have made, and by the attitude you project.

And it's a level of competence which falls short of that needed to install a CU.

I've just used this Forum to seek professional advice, and welcome all comments

Yes - I've noticed how you welcomed the comments from people saying "no, you can't install a new CU and leave the lighting circuit without an earth"....

 

[duncanhead]

what page is 130-07-01 on chapter 13 starts on page 14 ?
why are you quoting regs to the op he does not yet have a copy

thx !!

I now have the PDF of the BS7671 17th edition, it's in 3 chapters (for the design) I also have 16 chapters (for the testing and inspection...)

there are some other chapters (6 chapters marked "explained")

I think that I had the necessary info. all of this the time.

As I stated there is a "mass" of info and sometimes it's easier to clarify by email/web/telephone than "digest" 500 pages (but don't site me) of tech stuff

 

[ban-all-sheds]

what page is 130-07-01 on chapter 13 starts on page 14 ?

130-07-01 is on p14.

why are you quoting regs to the op he does not yet have a copy

Maybe not, but when I quoted 131.8 to him I didn't know that, and frankly it seemed madness that someone would be replacing a CU, would have test equipment, was originally planning to use it as one of the assessment jobs to register with a Competent Person scheme and not have a copy. As I said - HTF can anybody sign a declaration to say that they've complied with the regulations if they don't know what the regulations are?

After he came back saying "Ok, yes I will get a more recent copy of the regs" I quoted 130-07-01 to him to make the point that this is not a requirement which is new in the 17th.

 

[duncanhead]

Well you don't actually know the model... and WYLEX will disagree - take them to court then !!!

What does the model of the CU have to do with it?

And since when did Wylex acquire authority in relation to the Wiring Regulations?

And given that even a plug will come with instructions saying "if in doubt consult a qualified electrician" I really find it impossible to believe that Wylex would answer the sort of questions you'd have been asking and tell you that it was OK for you to go ahead and install the CU.

I can't comment on your comment on The Power Service etc, they appear to be "very competant" and helpful, and if you site them "as a bunch of dangerous buffoons - quote) " then I'd telephone them 1st thing on Monday to explain/discuss and mitigate a "case" against you,

Bring it on - I'd love to see them explain why they told someone like you that you could ignore the Wiring Regulations.

Your statement "not competant to do so" is in question, seeking advice is NOT a sign of incompendancy,

Not per se, I agree.

But your level of competence is disclosed by the questions you've asked, and by the statements you have made, and by the attitude you project.

And it's a level of competence which falls short of that needed to install a CU.

I've just used this Forum to seek professional advice, and welcome all comments

Yes - I've noticed how you welcomed the comments from people saying "no, you can't install a new CU and leave the lighting circuit without an earth"....

OK , nearly time to finish my comments for this evening, however the attitude (mine) is a serious and professional one, with many serious and relavent questions, I if thought that" I knew it all" and went ahead with projects/services then I'd admit that I was " an idiot", but that's without consultation to "peers" / professionals, so "if you know it all and are a seasoned professional" why talk "someone down" who seeks advice? Perhaps you should just "look", read, & not reply and get on with your Electrical Business, perhaps do some marketing and Sales "excercises" to increase Business in this "Credit Crunch Time" and not "knock" "lessers" down, however your comments are welcome....
PS The WYLEX CCU is fully compliant, all equipment that they supply has to be BS and CE approved, (and is/has been) ...you cannot dought that

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I now have the PDF of the BS7671 17th edition,

Really?

AFAIK the only PDF version they put out was the Draft for Public Comment back in 2006.

it's in 3 chapters (for the design) I also have 16 chapters (for the testing and inspection...)

there are some other chapters (6 chapters marked "explained")

I don't know what you've got, but it isn't the Wiring Regulations.

I think that I had the necessary info. all of this the time.

Heaven forbid that you should read it though.

Let's see if I've got this right - you've got test equipment which you may know how to use (as in connect and press buttons), you were on the verge of submitting an application to ELECSA, but you don't own, or have a ******* clue about, the Wiring Regulations?

As I stated there is a "mass" of info and sometimes it's easier to clarify by email/web/telephone than "digest" 500 pages (but don't site me) of tech stuff

Please flog your test equipment on eBay and give up this idea that you are cut out to be an electrician.

 

[jockspark]

hi bas i must be going blind or mad i am on page 14 from the top of the page
chapter 12
half way down chapter 13 fundamental principles
131 protection for safety
then 131.1
help

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OK , nearly time to finish my comments for this evening, however the attitude (mine) is a serious and professional one, with many serious and relavent questions, I if thought that" I knew it all" and went ahead with projects/services then I'd amit that i was " an idiot", but that's without consultation to "peers" / professionals,

You seem to have the same definition of "consultation" as the govt - i.e. you ask the questions, but when you get answers you don't like you say "load of rubbish, I know what I'm doing", and carry on with what you always planned to do.

PS The WYLEX CCU is fully compliant, all equipment that they supply has to be BS and CE approved, (and is/has been) ...you cannot dought that

Ah - so if you took a D63 MCB complying with BS EN 60898, and installed it in a CU complying with BS EN 60439-3 downstream of an RCD complying with BS EN 61008 it would then be OK to connect it to a lighting circuit wired in 1.0mm² cable complying with BS 6004 would it?

A new car complies with all the regulations and standards that it has to, but someone can still get behind the wheel and drive it in a way which breaks the regulations for operating it and kill someone.

The Wylex CU complies with all the regulations and standards that it has to, but your planned installation of it does not.

 

[duncanhead]

I now have the PDF of the BS7671 17th edition,

Really?

AFAIK the only PDF version they put out was the Draft for Public Comment back in 2006.

it's in 3 chapters (for the design) I also have 16 chapters (for the testing and inspection...)

there are some other chapters (6 chapters marked "explained")

I don't know what you've got, but it isn't the Wiring Regulations.

I think that I had the necessary info. all of this the time.

Heaven forbid that you should read it though.

Let's see if I've got this right - you've got test equipment which you may know how to use (as in connect and press buttons), you were on the verge of submitting an application to ELECSA, but you don't own, or have a ******* clue about, the Wiring Regulations?

As I stated there is a "mass" of info and sometimes it's easier to clarify by email/web/telephone than "digest" 500 pages (but don't site me) of tech stuff

Please flog your test equipment on eBay and give up this idea that you are cut out to be an electrician.

thx for the inspiration!! I'm really enthused, u sure know how to motivate people (I must put u on my list as something like an HR Director in my new Corporation - I'd get people "knocking" at my door for jobs/positions!!)
- all in good humour BAS - have a good evening, (I've got some bedtime reading to catch up on)
and i'm not "on the verge" of submission, as I stated i've a few courses and exams to take, and as it's another £2000 approx that'll blow several years of my DWP "income" and are gaining practical experience - mainly on how to respond to forums... hmmmm.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

hi bas i must be going blind or mad i am on page 14 from the top of the page
chapter 12
half way down chapter 13 fundamental principles
131 protection for safety
then 131.1
help

Err.. you were asking about 130-07-01, which is slightly less than halfway down p14.

131.8 is a 17th regulation, not a 16th, and that's slightly less than halfway down p16.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

and i'm not "on the verge" of submission, as I stated i've a few courses and exams to take

Then you're not yet competent enough to start installing CUs.

And one of those exams you'll have to take will be the City and Guilds 2382 Certificate in the Requirements for Electrical Installations BS 7671 IEE Wiring Regulations 17th Edition, and if you balk at digesting 100's of pages of technical information you won't succeed.

 

[duncanhead]

OK , nearly time to finish my comments for this evening, however the attitude (mine) is a serious and professional one, with many serious and relavent questions, I if thought that" I knew it all" and went ahead with projects/services then I'd amit that i was " an idiot", but that's without consultation to "peers" / professionals,

You seem to have the same definition of "consultation" as the govt - i.e. you ask the questions, but when you get answers you don't like you say "load of rubbish, I know what I'm doing", and carry on with what you always planned to do.

PS The WYLEX CCU is fully compliant, all equipment that they supply has to be BS and CE approved, (and is/has been) ...you cannot dought that

Ah - so if you took a D63 MCB complying with BS EN 60898, and installed it in a CU complying with BS EN 60439-3 downstream of an RCD complying with BS EN 61008 it would then be OK to connect it to a lighting circuit wired in 1.0mm² cable complying with BS 6004 would it?

A new car complies with all the regulations and standards that it has to, but someone can still get behind the wheel and drive it in a way which breaks the regulations for operating it and kill someone.

The Wylex CU complies with all the regulations and standards that it has to, but your planned installation of it does not.

Dear BAS, re:"
Ah - so if you took a D63 MCB complying with BS EN 60898, and installed it in a CU complying with BS EN 60439-3 downstream of an RCD complying with BS EN 61008 it would then be OK to connect it to a lighting circuit wired in 1.0mm² cable complying with BS 6004 would it?
" I'll ask the IET on Monday on that one, I have a few contacts there and they will tell you if "your project specification" meets the current requirements, however testing with your equipment should "tell" you within 10 mins of the very likely outcome of your question....

 

[jockspark]

sorry lost the plot were you quoting from the 16th as an example
as duncan said he was yet to get up to date version of the regs ?
so i am not mad or blind pheee

ok reading back i missed one of your posts all clear now
time for a cup of tea and then bed
goodnight all

 

[JonoPashley]

Its still manslaughter if someone is killed due to a safety flaw that you chose to ignore. If its not bad enough that the CPC is missing the cabling is old and possibly becoming fragile which could lead to exposed conductive parts becoming live, and then seeing as there is no fault path it may go undiscovered until you or a member of your family comes into contact with it. Please remember how small the amount of current it takes to kill and do the right thing.

 

[duncanhead]

OK , nearly time to finish my comments for this evening, however the attitude (mine) is a serious and professional one, with many serious and relavent questions, I if thought that" I knew it all" and went ahead with projects/services then I'd amit that i was " an idiot", but that's without consultation to "peers" / professionals,

You seem to have the same definition of "consultation" as the govt - i.e. you ask the questions, but when you get answers you don't like you say "load of rubbish, I know what I'm doing", and carry on with what you always planned to do.

PS The WYLEX CCU is fully compliant, all equipment that they supply has to be BS and CE approved, (and is/has been) ...you cannot dought that

Ah - so if you took a D63 MCB complying with BS EN 60898, and installed it in a CU complying with BS EN 60439-3 downstream of an RCD complying with BS EN 61008 it would then be OK to connect it to a lighting circuit wired in 1.0mm² cable complying with BS 6004 would it?


To answer this question (possibly in part) the D63 MCB is a Merlin Gerin Double Pole 63 AMP MCB and under 530.3.4 - which seems to require that only protective devices specified by the manufacturer can be used in a CU, so even if the CU complies with BS EN 60439-3 the D63 MCB must be specified by the CU manufacturer, if it's not Merlin Gerin then the answer is at this point is very likely no. BS EN 61008 (I assume -1) actually applies to an RCCD which has NO overcurrent protection, I assume that this scenario then has no overcurrent protection, the answer is then no.
Also you haven't specified the In. (I delta n)
If the cable complies with BS 6004 and I assume has a cpc then it must meet with the capacities as specified in table 4D5A depending on the installation method and de-rated accordingly to operating temperature, as you haven't specified the types and rating of any lighting loads then I would answer no on this aspect as one would have to measure/test all loads. ... but we will see what the official iet answer is ..