direct replacement in special locations.

[arctic]

Hi,

Hopefully someone will be able to clear this up.

Over the last year I've done a c&g 2381 (with Haden) and the niceic testing and inspection course, the tutor on the first course said that like for like replacements were notifiable but the guy from the niceic (accredited) course said that like for like replacements are not notifiable and as such can be carried out by any competent person. so for example a competent person could replace an oven or shower with either a unit of the same rating or less without having to notify building control or being part of a self certifying scheme.

Thanks in advance.

Kev

 

[Spark123]

Like for like replacements are not notifiable.

 

[kier]

i am a little confused now.special areas.
if i exchange an electrical operated part in a gas boiler ie a fan,gas valve or pcb.which are brand new and direct replacement,do i need to issue a minor works certificate.
thanks in advance.

 

[andy]

i am a little confused now.special areas.
if i exchange an electrical operated part in a gas boiler ie a fan,gas valve or pcb.which are brand new and direct replacement,do i need to issue a minor works certificate.
thanks in advance.

for gas valve etc, its not something an electrician would do. also a boiler would be an appliance and its guts wont come under electrical building regs

 

[arctic]

Kier,

My belief is that you can change any part as long as it isn't part of the gas system. So a pcb or fan would be ok but anything to do with the gas aspect would need to be done by a corgi fitter.

Kev

 

[Softus]

Like for like replacements are not notifiable.

This is not quite accurate. The distinction in the Building Regulations is between:

1. Major work, or work in special locations (kitchens, bathrooms and gardens);
2. Minor work such as replacing switches or adding sockets to existing circuits.

So, a hall light switch replacement is not notifiable, but replacing a light switch in the bathroom is.

 

[Softus]

Kier,

My belief is that you can change any part as long as it isn't part of the gas system. So a pcb or fan would be ok but anything to do with the gas aspect would need to be done by a corgi fitter.

Kev

andy is completely correct about this, whereas, Kev, you have it a little bit wrong.

However, gas is off-topic here, so if you want to read what I would have written have a look at this post.

 

[andy]

Like for like replacements are not notifiable.

This is not quite accurate. The distinction in the Building Regulations is between:

1. Major work, or work in special locations (kitchens, bathrooms and gardens);
2. Minor work such as replacing switches or adding sockets to existing circuits.

So, a hall light switch replacement is not notifiable, but replacing a light switch in the bathroom is.

direct replacement, like for like, is not notifiable no matter where it is

Kier,

My belief is that you can change any part as long as it isn't part of the gas system. So a pcb or fan would be ok but anything to do with the gas aspect would need to be done by a corgi fitter.

Kev

but to get to the fan you sometimes need to take covers off, which AFAIK, you have to be corgi to do

 

[Softus]

direct replacement, like for like, is not notifiable no matter where it is

Do you believe this because you read it in the Building Regulations, or because you want to believe it?

Kier,

My belief is that you can change any part as long as it isn't part of the gas system. So a pcb or fan would be ok but anything to do with the gas aspect would need to be done by a corgi fitter.

Kev

but to get to the fan you sometimes need to take covers off, which AFAIK, you have to be corgi to do

You don't have to work for a CORGI registered business to remove the boiler casing. Furthermore, if you are the owner/occupier of the house where the boiler is installed, you don't have to be CORGI registered to replace the fan. However, this part of the thread is becoming a hijack.

 

[andy]

direct replacement, like for like, is not notifiable no matter where it is

Do you believe this because you read it in the Building Regulations, or because you want to believe it?

was posted here by someone. you can change a shower like for like, providing its the same. so if you can change a shower in a special location, why cant you change a switch like for like (or light etc)

 

[Softus]

was posted here by someone.

Someone was wrong.

you can change a shower like for like, providing its the same.

You can change a shower, but it is notifiable if the shower is in a bathroom, or a kitchen, or outside.

so if you can change a shower in a special location, why cant you change a switch like for like (or light etc)

See above - they are both notifiable works.

The law on this is all enacted by the Building Regulations - if you haven't read them you're exposing yourself to prosecution with no possibility of defending yourself.

 

[Spark123]

From SI 2004 No 3210

NEW SCHEDULE 2B TO THE BUILDING REGULATIONS 2000
SCHEDULE 2B
Regulation 12(5)

DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED

1. Work consisting of -

(a) replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;

(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;

(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing installation components, where the circuit protective measures are unaffected;

(d) providing mechanical protection to an existing fixed installation, where the circuit protective measures and current carrying capacity of conductors are unaffected by the increased thermal insulation.

2. Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -

(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit; or

(iii) installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding.

3. Work on -

(a) telephone wiring or extra-low voltage wiring for the purposes of communications, information technology, signalling, control and similar purposes, where the wiring is not in a special location;

(b) equipment associated with the wiring referred to in sub-paragraph (a).

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043210.htm

http://www.iee.org/publish/wireregs..._part_p_notifications_to_building_control.pdf

 

[Stoday]

You can change a shower, but it is notifiable if the shower is in a bathroom, or a kitchen, or outside.

Someone was wrong.

And that someone was Softus.

The link Spark123 gives to the IEE site is particularly useful because it includes a table of what is and is not notifiable according to location - special or otherwise.

The IEE publication says replacing a shower, like for like, in a bathroom etc, is not notifiable.

You're not going to say that the IEE's got it wrong are you, Softus?

 

[Softus]

Stoday, do you find that it generally helps a topic along to snip bits of text from other postings and quote them out of sequence? Is this the only way that you can present your argument? If so, I feel a bit sorry for you. Notwithstanding that, I'll do my best to answer the nub of your point, which I believe is that you disagree with my interpretation of Part P of the Building Regs.

The IEE publication says replacing a shower, like for like, in a bathroom etc, is not notifiable.

You're not going to say that the IEE's got it wrong are you, Softus?

I can see that the IEE publishes a table of what Paul Cook believes is and is not notifiable according to location - special or otherwise. This is his interpretation of the law, and it's no more valid than mine, although I doubt that you would agree with me on that. If you believe that his interpretation is different to mine, and that his is correct, then so be it. I'm glad that you're interested in making up your own mind about it, and I have no motive for taking on the task of changing it.

I've noticed a trend amongst those people who find it difficult to read the SI directly, which is that they're given to referring to other people's interpretations of the law. Apropos this trend, Spark123 has posted a link to the ODPM site, and he hasn't stated whether or not he agrees with the ODPM's interpretation. (I happen to disagree with it, just in case you wondered).

Naturally I think I'm right, otherwise I wouldn't make the statements that I do, so if you come across statements that contradict mine, then naturally I will tend to think those are wrong. However, I'm open-minded, so if you want to debate the SI and the merits of the different interpretations, then please go ahead.

What I'd like to see is a set of references to court rulings that have involved interpreting Part P. Until we have those, your attempt to poke fun at me backfires rather humiliatingly on you, since you give the impression of not having read the law yourself.

 

[andy]

just noticed on that table that installing telecomms in a special location, other than a kitchen is notifiable. wonder if all the BT/telewest las are now part p!?