dirty tricks

[adlplumbing]

just a quicky can you fit a consumer unit with out part p and be member of registered body?

this not for me, it about rather anouying tv programme
called dirty tricks of the trade

 

[NewOrder]

If you're a member of certain schemes then you can self certify the work, if that is what you mean?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

just a quicky can you fit a consumer unit with out part p

If you did it in England or Wales without complying with Part P that would be unlawful.

and be member of registered body?

If you are registered with a Competent Person scheme it would be a breach of your membership agreement to fail to comply with Part P.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

just a quicky can you fit a consumer unit with out part p and be member of registered body?

this not for me, it about rather anouying tv programme
called dirty tricks of the trade

Part P is a building regulation, something that when doing electrical work you need to comply to. Whether a diyer, qualified or unqualified electrician, you should comply to the guidelines of Part P.
Part P is something you learn along the way, like part G & H if your a plumber, you don't need a qualification in it, you pick it up as you are taught the scope of your trade.

If your a member of a domestic scheme provider like ELECSA, NAPIT, NICEIC, you are part p approved. That means you have been assessed and they are happy that your work complies to Part P.
If you carry out work that does not comply to the regulations, then you should be in bother.

So in answer to you question:
" can you fit a consumer unit with out part p and be member of registered body?"
You can fit a consumer unit without having a part p qualification.
You can't be an approved part p contractor without having knowledge of part, but a qualification in part p is not required to be a member.

 

[HERTS P&D]

ADI. you should be at work and not watching day time telly.

Andy

 

[Paul_C]

Whether a diyer, qualified or unqualified electrician, you should comply to the guidelines of Part P.

The Approved Document contains guidelines on how you might comply with Part P. Part P itself is not guidelines but a statutory provision of the building regulations, which requires only that:

Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining, or altering the installations from fire or injury.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Part P is something you learn along the way,

How long does it take to learn this:

You can fit a consumer unit without having a part p qualification.

There's no such thing as a "Part P qualification".

You can't be an approved part p contractor without having knowledge of part,

There's no such thing as an approved Part P contractor.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Your point being?

If guidance is not provided, how would one know, how one would comply.

Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining, or altering the installations from fire or injury.

Means very little without guidance.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Part P is something you learn along the way,

How long does it take to learn this:

not long to learn that but to actual learn the installation methods of compliance is a little longer.

You can fit a consumer unit without having a part p qualification.
There's no such thing as a "Part P qualification".

I believe that is what my post indicated

You can't be an approved part p contractor without having knowledge of part,
There's no such thing as an approved Part P contractor.

I have a membership of a scheme that says different.
http://www.elecsa.co.uk/searchbypostcode.aspx

 

[ban-all-sheds]

to actual learn the installation methods of compliance is a little longer.

But that's not Part P.

This is Part P:

You talked about "learning" Part P.

I believe that is what my post indicated

No - you said "You can fit a consumer unit without having a part p qualification", which implies that a Part P qualification is something which exists.

It's nonsense to write "You can fit a consumer unit without having something which does not exist", for were that not the case nobody could ever fit a consumer unit.

I have a membership of a scheme that says different.

Then you are a member of a scheme run by people incapable of reading and understanding English.

If I asked them do you think they would be able to point me at a reference in the Building Regulations to "approved Part P contractor"?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Stuff

I am not going to bicker over trivialities over part p, part p is just not about a paragraph in an approved document. It's about compliance.
You can read that and it means jack, if the work is not done in accordance with Building Regulations, and you need knowledge of the guidelines of the methods used to comply to do that.
People need to know how to make these regulations comply in the real word not on a sheet of paper. I talked about guidance to part p also, not just part p.
I never said there was a qualification, I said you didn't need one!

Then you are a member of a scheme run by people incapable of reading and understanding English.

Well you said there was no such thing as one and I offered you a link to disprove that, whether they understand English or not.

 

[adlplumbing]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0161pg0/Dirty_Tricks_of_the_Tradesmen_Episode_9/
29.30 just wonering if that would be against the law

 

[adlplumbing]

ADI. you should be at work and not watching day time telly.

Andy

yep i need a job
badly had interveiw last thursday
got one coming up on wensday or thursday

 

[Paul_C]

If guidance is not provided, how would one know, how one would comply.

In the broadest sense, I would say by having sufficient knowledge and experience to recognize whether an installation is "reasonably safe" or not. The only official guidelines available, in the form of the Approved Document, don't really impart sufficient knowledge for that. Certainly, they indicate that compliance with BS7671 or one of two dozen other specific standards will be deemed (in the view of the Secretary of State) to satisfy the requirements of Part P, but as those guidelines themselves point out, that doesn't mean that those are the only methods of compliance. An installation can quite easily be "reasonably safe" without complying in full with any specific published standard.

Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining, or altering the installations from fire or injury.

Means very little without guidance.

Clearly it's open to some subjectiveness, and my idea of what is "reasonably safe" might differ somewhat from somebody else's idea (especially those brought up in the BS7671 electricians' mindset who often seem to think that anything short of the latest version of BS7671 cannot be considered acceptable and safe).

But even official guidelines are only that - Guidelines. Even the statutory provisions only go as far as suggesting that following the guidelines contained within the approved documents would tend to establish compliance, and don't actually state that following all the guidelines will be taken as indicating compliance (which contrasts somewhat with the the comments about "in the view of the Secretary of State" in the approved documents). It's all left somewhat vague.

Should it ever go that far, what is "reasonable" provision for electrical safety would have to come down to the same sort of arguments as to what constitutes reasonable force against an intruder, or what constitutes a reasonable duty of care. As such, it's likely to be open to the same sort of somewhat arbitrary, even capricious, decisions as such matters.

 

[securespark]

just a quicky

OK hun, but not here, everyone's looking.

Meet you round the back in 5.