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Fortunately, I am the answer... 10 years in heating and still as fresh faced as a 16 year old.. 
DIY boiler installation
- Thread starter Tonyjohn
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Come on guys lets be honest, its not exactly Rocket science, without dragging the competence issue out, along with the basic understanding how systems work along with instructions, i'am more then capable of carrying out the practical work required correctly and to a high standard, although i would agree I may lack some teckniclal knowledge/experience hents my original post on this Website looking for some expert advise/tips
Going back a step or two, i am now in two minds if to fit a sealed system boiler (more expensive option, less work) or a heat only boiler with a Y system (cheaper, more components and work) either option would be wall mounted with a virtical flue, any tips or preference on either system would be appreciated
Going back a step or two, i am now in two minds if to fit a sealed system boiler (more expensive option, less work) or a heat only boiler with a Y system (cheaper, more components and work) either option would be wall mounted with a virtical flue, any tips or preference on either system would be appreciated
Following some expert advise on this Forum i have decided to fork out and employ a qualified Boiler fitter to install and complete all the works, I would agree DIY and Boilers do not mix and can get very messy to complete and commission along with the warranty and legal issues
With the right RGI there is no reason why a competent DIYer can not do most of the work!
However, to get the maximum benefit the RGI should be involved at the beginning to ensure the right location is chosen for the boiler and flue.
Legally the RGI must:-
Fit boiler mounting bracket to the wall.
Install correctly sized gas supply to boiler.
Assemble and fit flue.
Commission boiler, [ complete Benchmark ] and notify to Building Control.
I put the [ ] brackets because thats not actually a legal requirement but it is part of the commissioning process and without it difficulties may be experienced with any warrantee issues.
I have done that a couple of times and the worst for me was the owner who waited for me to arrive before filling with water. Not surprisingly about 10 of his joints leaked ! I had to come back another day.
Now I would insist that all pressurising was completed before I arrived.
There is so much the DIYer can do. For example to cut and clip the gas supply pipe so all the RGI needs to do is solder the joints and test.
Tony
However, to get the maximum benefit the RGI should be involved at the beginning to ensure the right location is chosen for the boiler and flue.
Legally the RGI must:-
Fit boiler mounting bracket to the wall.
Install correctly sized gas supply to boiler.
Assemble and fit flue.
Commission boiler, [ complete Benchmark ] and notify to Building Control.
I put the [ ] brackets because thats not actually a legal requirement but it is part of the commissioning process and without it difficulties may be experienced with any warrantee issues.
I have done that a couple of times and the worst for me was the owner who waited for me to arrive before filling with water. Not surprisingly about 10 of his joints leaked ! I had to come back another day.
Now I would insist that all pressurising was completed before I arrived.
There is so much the DIYer can do. For example to cut and clip the gas supply pipe so all the RGI needs to do is solder the joints and test.
Tony
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Am I being riped-off, I have received 3 prices to replace the boiler, all companies/salesperson agreed at the time of inspection what has to be done and what will be supplied, no mention of replacing the hot water tank at the time, chose the cheapest and paid a deposit.
Now the fitter has been around to check what he needs and has said I would also need to replace the perfectly good hot water tank because it has the original insulated jacket as opposed to the foam insulation on new boilers. i can understand this if the tank was faulty and needed replacing
then you would replace with the new type
So they are now saying if I do not agree to having a new tank installed at an extra £500 they can not install the boiler according to the regulations and i will lose the deposit
As far as i am aware, providing the tank is well insulated that should be ok
Now the fitter has been around to check what he needs and has said I would also need to replace the perfectly good hot water tank because it has the original insulated jacket as opposed to the foam insulation on new boilers. i can understand this if the tank was faulty and needed replacing
then you would replace with the new type
So they are now saying if I do not agree to having a new tank installed at an extra £500 they can not install the boiler according to the regulations and i will lose the deposit
As far as i am aware, providing the tank is well insulated that should be ok
The cylinder should be replaced because the insulation is very poor and the reheat time is excessive.
You chose the cheapest and you have got a cowboy!
He gave a quotation after seeing the system and should have identified the need to replace the cylinder.
He has quoted an excessive price for the cylinder. For a stand alone cylinder we quote about £460. As part of a new boiler install we charge about £340.
I think you should stand your ground and demand the deposit back and if he refuses take him to trading standards first ( they are free ) and/or sue for the return of your deposit.
For some people I offer to represent them in court free ( thats not for you though ).
If you wanted to be really clever you could get SOMEONE ELSE to replace the cylinder then that cowboy will not have any argument.
I wonder what system cleaning the cowboy is not going to do.
Tony
You chose the cheapest and you have got a cowboy!
He gave a quotation after seeing the system and should have identified the need to replace the cylinder.
He has quoted an excessive price for the cylinder. For a stand alone cylinder we quote about £460. As part of a new boiler install we charge about £340.
I think you should stand your ground and demand the deposit back and if he refuses take him to trading standards first ( they are free ) and/or sue for the return of your deposit.
For some people I offer to represent them in court free ( thats not for you though ).
If you wanted to be really clever you could get SOMEONE ELSE to replace the cylinder then that cowboy will not have any argument.
I wonder what system cleaning the cowboy is not going to do.
Tony
The problem with your kind of project is not so much the safety (from your point of view), but knowing the pitfalls. Another problem is that you have no way of knowing if the RGI that finishes the job does it properly or not.
A combination of training and experience, gives a good RGI the skills to recognise telltale signs of problems. I don't mean training as in the bit that is needed to get your card, but in depth knowledge of boilers and systems.
Most good RGI's will not be interested in finishing a job like yours for 2 reasons; the money is usually not worth the hassle, and they are bound to find things that are not good. They have now the choice between only doing what is compulsory, and leaning the defects, and thus doing a poor job which will tarnish their reputation. The other option is to correct the defects, and loose valuable time.
All and all, I know exactly 1 RGI that I trust to do a good job, who is willing to commission diy jobs. He will probably charge more than you paid for the whole boiler, which usually means he is considered too expensive.
A combination of training and experience, gives a good RGI the skills to recognise telltale signs of problems. I don't mean training as in the bit that is needed to get your card, but in depth knowledge of boilers and systems.
Most good RGI's will not be interested in finishing a job like yours for 2 reasons; the money is usually not worth the hassle, and they are bound to find things that are not good. They have now the choice between only doing what is compulsory, and leaning the defects, and thus doing a poor job which will tarnish their reputation. The other option is to correct the defects, and loose valuable time.
All and all, I know exactly 1 RGI that I trust to do a good job, who is willing to commission diy jobs. He will probably charge more than you paid for the whole boiler, which usually means he is considered too expensive.
doesn't mean it has to be replaced its just a recommendation. Depends on the boiler going in. If its got a low modulation rate then it should cope with an old cylinder. I would recommend it, but not insist.
No, it does not HAVE to be replaced which is why I used the word "should" which is what I think the Building Regs say.
However, as a recent posting showed, if its put into a pumped system, the poor adsorption of the old cylinder causes problems. Most of this forum, except Danger Mouse and I, did not realise what the problem was.
Tony
Thanks for the advise, from my understanding now, it is good practice and or a recomendation to replace the hot water tank but not compulsory.
In my case the existing tank is very well insulated with 2 thick and well raped boiler jackets
I also intend to replace the vented tank with a none vented type in the near future (when I can afford it)
Would I be within my rights/regulations to state that the tank does not have to be replaced and the new boiler can be installed and commissioned.
For the record the price quoted to install a Baxi Solo HE boiler was £2500 to include, S System kit, TVR x 3, Remote room stat, flush, teatment
In my case the existing tank is very well insulated with 2 thick and well raped boiler jackets
I also intend to replace the vented tank with a none vented type in the near future (when I can afford it)
Would I be within my rights/regulations to state that the tank does not have to be replaced and the new boiler can be installed and commissioned.
For the record the price quoted to install a Baxi Solo HE boiler was £2500 to include, S System kit, TVR x 3, Remote room stat, flush, teatment
It is your house and up to you what you pay for!
However, because your cylinder has very poor heat adsorption it will cause over cycling of the boiler and that will delay the reheat unless the heating is on at the same time.
You seem to have had some expensive quotes there!
Without having seen it, I would have given a budgetary quote of-
Boiler £500-£900 depending on model.
Instal £840 inc water treatment.
Controls £240
TRVs £35 each using best quality like Drayton TRV4s
I would also have advised replacing the other rad valves at £15 each if the system is to be pressurised.
There are a few variables there but I dont expect it would have been so much and you say thats the cheapest of your three quotes.
Of course if you live in the charging zone then we would double all the labour prices!
Tony
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