diy boiler fitting

[namsag]

Yep there is only about 3000 pages on it

 

[D_Hailsham]

See Landlord prosecuted for DIY gas work

The HSE have stated that "competent" is determined by both qualifications and experience.

in that instance it is for financial reward and therefore illegal..

This argument has been used before. Nowhere in the regulations does it say anything about financial reward.

He was done on two counts:
1. Not being a competent person
2. Not employing someone who was, to put it briefly, Corgi/Gas safe registered.

 

[namsag]

The last time i read the gas regs it did mention financial reward or they said reward but that was a couple of years ago

 

[mark333]

surely the hse would not be relevant as this is a private dwelling and not work / employment related. there site states "Our job is to prevent death, injury and ill-health to those at work and those affected by work activities" or is this another one of those as the individual reads it statements

 

[londonboy]

Why don't you contact an engineer in your area and see if you can work with him?

 

[D_Hailsham]

The last time i read the gas regs it did mention financial reward or they said reward but that was a couple of years ago

Nothing in the GSIUR 1998. It must have been in one of the HSE or Corgi documents which "interpret" or "explain" the regulations. Unfortunately they do not have the force of the law, only the GSIUR have that.

I think the confusion comes in deciding who the regulations are referring to when the use the word "employer" in para 3 of the regulations. I do not think it refers to the customer, but to the person who pays the wages of the gas fitter. If it meant the customer, regulation 3(6) would be meaningless.

(6) The employer of any person carrying out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel in the course of his employment shall ensure that such of the following provisions of these Regulations as impose duties upon that person and are for the time being in force are complied with by that person.
So the customer is supposed to ensure that the regulations are complied with??

 

[Onetap]

He was done on two counts:
1. Not being a competent person
2. Not employing someone who was, to put it briefly, Corgi/Gas safe registered.

In the case to which the link was posted, there was a gas leak to which Transco were called. The installer had demonstrated that he was not competent by having left gas leaking. This would have been a contravention of The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998,

3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

Also, as a landlord, he was self-employed; so working on the gas system, even if he had been a competent DIYer, would have been a contravention of another section of The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998;

(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

There's a link to the statute in the sticky at the top of the forum.

 

[transam]

The term Employer , when used in the context of a customer , contracting an R.G.I , is not strictly accurate , it is also not illegal for any private customer to engage the services of a non reg installer , even if he is fully aware of it .
The H.S.E can & would get involved , under certain circumstances , & it should be noted that even if a private customer is not breaking the law by engaging the services of a non reg installer (knowingly ) if something went wrong , he had better have a good excuse for the Judge .
If the rule makers are serious about gas safety , make it a criminal offence for any customer to employ or engage the services of any non reg person , it would generate its own publicity in particular when some O.A.P was thrown in prison , or would that be taking Safety to far ??I suppose there are limits even to issues of safety??

 

[Axel]

A practical problem is that if you hang and pipe up the boiler yourself, the RGI who comes to check, commission and sign off the installation, has no sure way of knowing if it is properly fixed to the wall! For this reason, the very large majority of RGI's won't want to put their name to someone else's work.

 

[ColJack]

they could have done him with the section on landlords duty of care as well.. they have to maintain the pipes and flues etc to a safe standard..

 

[ColJack]

stupid website playing up..

 

[ManxPlumber]

I just can't believe some people, 'I read the manual, I think I'm competent'

You can only prove competence by getting your ACS certificate - that training/examination proves to a governing body that you have proved yourself competent

It's simple, do you have your ACS certificate? if no then you're not competent

 

[kirkgas]

not legally

Hi could you please expand your replie kirkgas. Thanks

i assume the OP has not proved competance in gas (ie sat & passed ACS CCN1 & CEN1) as he intends to get someone in to commission it, a gas engineer is not allowed to finish work he knows was started by a non RGI, therefore i said it was illegal, perhaps i should have said it isnt allowed ( forgot how pedantic we can be on here )
i can never be arsed getting involved in the non qualified/competant arguement, but as a fully qualified experienced plumber, who then went on to pass ACS (apparently i must not call myself an engineer, like i would lower myself from being a plumber to being an engineer)
for the benefit of clarification fitting a boiler on a wall and fitting a telescopic flue is classed as gas work and as described above must not be done unless competant so in my opinion is not for a non registered person.

 

[kirkgas]

surely the hse would not be relevant as this is a private dwelling and not work / employment related. there site states "Our job is to prevent death, injury and ill-health to those at work and those affected by work activities" or is this another one of those as the individual reads it statements

not wishing to cause any distress to anyone connected with a gas tragedy, but i remember one recently where someone was killed walking past a house when a gas explosion knocked a wall on to them, this could have been caused by poor work therefore effected someone else, a gas explosion is likely to injure someone so great care must be taken by people who THINK they know what they are doing, i KNOW what i'm doing as i have proved by passing exams every 5 years since 1995, passing assessor/verifier exams and having done many hundreds of documented jobs without any problem

 

[Agile]

A practical problem is that if you hang and pipe up the boiler yourself, the RGI who comes to check, commission and sign off the installation, has no sure way of knowing if it is properly fixed to the wall! For this reason, the very large majority of RGI's won't want to put their name to someone else's work.

When you have done you gas quals you will have learnt that there are several aspects the RGI must do himself which ColJack obviously does not know about and is therefore implying wrong and potentially dangerous advice!

For the record, based on the CORGI interpretation, the RGI must

fit the mounting bracket to the wall
fit the flue to the boiler
connect the gas to the boiler
inspect and test the gas supply
commission the appliance
complete the paperwork

Some RGIs, including me, WILL be prepared to do this in conjunction with a sensible DIYer. Few DIYers are sensible about it and few RGIs want to be bothered with them.

Tony