DIY is not an electrician. No sir, not at all...

[skotl]

Darn. OK, I give up

Yes, I meant "creosote-like-substances"

As it happens, I argue on another thread that you're active on (the poor guy who wants to extend his iphone connection downstairs) that one needs to keep a sense of perspective on all of this.

 

[Alarm]

Well I think BAS is right.

A little abrupt, then again fools need a harsh word to be kept from killing themselves or others.

 

[JohnW2]

Well I think BAS is right. A little abrupt, then again fools need a harsh word to be kept from killing themselves or others.

Yes, fools do - but, unless one simply takes the view (as some do) that virtually (or literally!) all DIY electrical work should be strongly discouraged, if not banned, the problem is then in distinguishing the fools from the others!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think it's to be encouraged.

After acquiring the necessary knowledge and tools.

 

[mointainwalker]

I would like to try to understand the real risk of DIY electrical-work in everyday life.


Can anyone say from any reliable source, how many ;

a) Professionals
b) Non-professionals

are killed/injured by electricity in any one year.

If there are any such numbers, we will probably have to bear in mind that the b) number will include metal-thieves, anglers and tipper-truck/crane-drivers.

Thanks

 

[bernardgreen]

Can anyone say from any reliable source, how many ;
a) Professionals
b) Non-professionals
are killed/injured by electricity in any one year.

More important are the numbers of ordinary people who are adversely affected by the work carried out by :-
a) Professionals
b) Non-professionals

Adverse effects being obvious ones such as death from electrocution down to having in-adequate heating or lighting in the house and to include the less obvious affects such as fear and anxiety arising from poorly installed or compromised work.

It is complicated because a DIYer can work to a professional standard and a "professional" can work to a non professional standard.

 

[mointainwalker]

Bernard

What you say is obviously true but unquantifiable ( except perhaps for the type of injuries I enquired about ) and one can only have some indication from complaints on forums, but because of the self-selecting nature of complainants these also give only a vague indication.

If anyone has any statistics I would be interested to see them and think they could usefully add to the debate.

 

[NewOrder]

I know two people which have been badly electrocuted. One was as a result of a faulty appliance, the other was down to faulty wiring done by a so called builder (the sockets on the extension had no working earth).

The second was worse as the shock happened just two weeks after it was wired.

Then there is all the near misses we see a lot on her, e.g burnt out cables or fuses due to either poor quality cable selection or people simply over loading a circuit.

 

[JohnW2]

More important are the numbers of ordinary people who are adversely affected by the work carried out by :-
a) Professionals
b) Non-professionals
Adverse effects being obvious ones such as death from electrocution down to having in-adequate heating or lighting in the house and to include the less obvious affects such as fear and anxiety arising from poorly installed or compromised work.

That would indeed be valuable to the discussion but, of course, most such statistics are simply not available. Indeed, anything beyond deaths (and even that without the professional/non-professional breakdown) gets difficult, and could only be estimated from specific surveys.

However, even the totals for deaths does something to aid the 'perspective' discussion. In 2007 (the most recenty figures I've seen), there were 28 UK deaths certified as being due to electrocution (9 workplace, 19 home/other) and 49 deaths due to fires believed to be of electrical origin. Of the latter, 12 of the fires were due to 'user misuse' and 12 due to placing articles too close to electrical sources of heat - so really only the remaining 23 ('faults') can really be blamed on the electrical installation/work.

That's therefore about 51 deaths per year attributed to electrical causes (and many of the 28 electrocutions may be due to silliness, rather than any fault of the installation). Although IMO very unlikely, even if most of those deaths were related to electrical work done by non-professionals, that is a very small figure in relation to those for many other causes of 'accidental' death.

If anecdotes mean anything, I can tell you of experiences during a distantly past phase of my life when I worked in a busy A&E department for a couple of years. We saw in excess of 100 patients per day, so maybe around 50,000 went past my eyes during those 2 years. From that period, I recall a handful of minor electrical burns, a couple with electrical burns bad enough to require specialist attention (i.e. a burns unit) and one person dead as a result of electrocution, who was an electrician who suffered his injury whilst working (needless to say, that one sticks in my mind). If one contrasts that with the several serious injuries (some fatal) as a result of non-electrical DIY that we saw virtually every weekend, the 'perspective' issue perhaps becomes a little clearer.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[skotl]

In 2007 (the most recenty figures I've seen), there were 28 UK deaths certified as being due to electrocution (9 workplace, 19 home/other) and 49 deaths due to fires believed to be of electrical origin... That's therefore about 51 deaths per year attributed to electrical causes

That certainly puts it into perspective. According to the DOT, there were 1,857 road deaths in 2010.

I still suspect, though (as reasoned by some here), that many injuries / deaths are "delayed-reaction", in that they happen many months or years after the bad workmanship was completed.
So, I'm not saying "never do electrical DIY", but I'll definitely ensure that I have all the information that I need, and that I'd recognise my limitations.

Cheers
Scott

 

[JohnW2]

In 2007 (the most recenty figures I've seen), there were 28 UK deaths certified as being due to electrocution (9 workplace, 19 home/other) and 49 deaths due to fires believed to be of electrical origin... That's therefore about 51 deaths per year attributed to electrical causes

That certainly puts it into perspective. According to the DOT, there were 1,857 road deaths in 2010.

Indeed. For further perspective, in the same year (2007) there were 57 deaths due to falls from ladders, and the total number of 'accidental deaths' (the 7th most common cause of death) was a little under 12,000. Perhaps most important, perspective-wise, is that it's probable that only a small proportion of those 51 electricity-related deaths in 2007 were anything to do with 'bad workmanship' (on the part of electricians or non-electricians) - so the number of deaths due to bad workmanship by non-elecricians may well have been extremely small, quite possibly 'in single figures'.

I still suspect, though (as reasoned by some here), that many injuries / deaths are "delayed-reaction", in that they happen many months or years after the bad workmanship was completed.

Undoubtedly true, but that doesn't alter the figures. If some of those 51 electricity-related deaths were related to bad wormanship, that work may have been undertaken months, years or decades prior to the fatal incident in 2007.

So, I'm not saying "never do electrical DIY", but I'll definitely ensure that I have all the information that I need, and that I'd recognise my limitations.

As I've said before, that's the proper and sensible approach to adopt and advocate - but please take and advocate the same approach to anything involving ladders, tools (particularly power tools), machinery (including cars) etc.etc. - there are far more deaths and injuries to be avoided/ prevented there than in relation to matters electrical.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

[ASIDE]
Just because some dictionaries have abandoned all sense of what is right, and have decided to side with the ignorami who think that "electrocution" is just another word for "electric shock" that doesn't mean that we have to join them in the race for the moronic bottom.

You can't be slightly electrocuted, or badly electrocuted - it's an absolute condition - you are either dead or you are not.
[/ASIDE]

 

[JohnW2]

[ASIDE]....[/ASIDE]

It would perhaps be helpful if you were to give an indication of to whom your aside is directed. [ quote]...[/quote],without the space, is quite useful for that!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That certainly puts it into perspective. According to the DOT, there were 1,857 road deaths in 2010.

It's coming down - for years it was pretty constant at around 10 per day.

Does that figure include all road users, or just people in vehicles?

Indeed. For further perspective, in the same year (2007) there were 57 deaths due to falls from ladders

Include non-fatal accidents, and steps and stairs as well as ladders, and in 1999, about 28,000 people were killed or injured falling from ladders and steps in the home


About 20 were drowned in garden ponds.


But all those figures can be made to pale into insignificance if you wish.

About 9000 die from drinking, and 5-6000 kill themselves.

And about 100,000 people in the UK die each year from smoking related illnesses.


I'm not sure what points any of you are trying to make.

 

[JohnW2]

That certainly puts it into perspective. According to the DOT, there were 1,857 road deaths in 2010.

It's coming down - for years it was pretty constant at around 10 per day.

You're right, on both counts. During the decade 1997-2006, the figures fell only a little (from 3599 to 3172 per year) - as you say, around 9-10 per day. However, there has been a dramatic progressive fall since 2006, down to the 1,857 figure in 2010.

Does that figure include all road users, or just people in vehicles?

Thes figures are totals for all road users - pedestrians, cyclists, motor-cyclists and vehicle occupants.

...But all those figures can be made to pale into insignificance if you wish. About 9000 die from drinking, and 5-6000 kill themselves. And about 100,000 people in the UK die each year from smoking related illnesses. I'm not sure what points any of you are trying to make.

Simply trying to put things into perspective - as you are doing even more dramatically by what you've just written.

Kind Regards, John.