DIY is not an electrician. No sir, not at all...

[bernardgreen]

Paul wrote

I am perfectly ready to accept responsibility for the work I do, and therefore I don't see any reason why I should pay an extortionate amount of money to the local authority, so as far as I'm concerned all electrical work I do in my own house is not notifiable.

In a way I have the same opinion. For me and people like me the cost of involving the local authority is an added cost.

BUT I also have the opinion that, based on the things that happen as a result of bodged electricial installs, there has to be some control of the electrical work carried out in houses. That applies to both DIY and professional work. A professional bodger who self certifies his work to the local authority is as bad, if not worse, than a DIYer who bodges and does not notify the local authority.

I am perfectly ready to accept responsibility for the work

Would that include paying the mortgage for a guest who was unable to work after being injured by your electrical installation ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

PS: I don't do bombs. Sorry.

Oh I can tell people how to build a bomb.

Of sorts - not very efficient, and not thermonuclear.

Obtaining the raw materials is the hardest part, but as long as you don't mind being fatally injured during the manufacture of it the rest is not that hard to do.

But what would you do with it in the short time you had left?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

On the point re Part P, I have three rejoinders;

• 1) it is non-notifiable cos it is for the greater good (i.e. I am feeding back to the grid)

• 
  That would not make it non-notifiable in England or Wales.
  
  
  

  2) I make clear my point around wind energy that this is clearly exempt from your piffling land-based regulations

  Ditto.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

so as far as I'm concerned all electrical work I do in my own house is not notifiable.

That may well be, but that opinion is so completely at odds with what the law clearly says as to genuinely make you deranged.

Whatever you may think of the desirability of the law, to believe that that opinion means you are not bound by it is mad.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, as recently as 1964 my Concise Oxford Dictionary defined electrocute as "to kill by the use of electricity".

It still had that correct definition in 1977.

And in 1996.

My Collins from 2000 also has it.

 

[Paul_C]

That would not make it non-notifiable in England or Wales.

Ditto.

That may well be, but that opinion is so completely at odds with what the law clearly says as to genuinely make you deranged.

Yes, we know about the statutory requirement for notification. I think you missed the point of our comments.

And in 1996.

My Collins from 2000 also has it.

Webster's Dictionary still appears to as well:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute

And the Cambridge Dictionary:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/electrocute?q=electrocute

 

[Paul_C]

BUT I also have the opinion that, based on the things that happen as a result of bodged electricial installs, there has to be some control of the electrical work carried out in houses.

There has always been a degree of control in the sense that if somebody does something drastically wrong then he can be held to account for any injury or damage his actions cause. That's no different for electrical work than for any one of hundreds of other scenarios, such as erecting a fence which then collapses onto somebody in the street, or leaving a trailer on the road without a brake applied so that it rolls into a neighbor's yard and causes damage.

If we're talking about control in the sense of the notification requirements of Part P, however, then I do not believe there was ever any need for such control. The statistics simply did not indicate that there was some big problem which needed addressing.

Would that include paying the mortgage for a guest who was unable to work after being injured by your electrical installation ?

Let's say that I would consider myself responsible in the same way as for any of those other numerous situations.

If, say, you prepared a meal for a guest and gave him severe food poisoning because you didn't cook it properly, would you pay his mortgage if he was unable to work?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, we know about the statutory requirement for notification. I think you missed the point of our comments.

OK - I'll quote you in full.

I am perfectly competent to do anything from adding a socket to a complete rewire, it's my house and my electrical apparatus, I am perfectly ready to accept responsibility for the work I do, and therefore I don't see any reason why I should pay an extortionate amount of money to the local authority, so as far as I'm concerned all electrical work I do in my own house is not notifiable.

Your competence has no bearing on whether work is notifiable or not. It simply doesn't.

Your willingness to accept responsibility for the work you do has no bearing on whether it is notifiable or not. It simply doesn't.

Whether you are able to see, or not, any reason to pay fees to your local authority has no bearing on whether work is notifiable or not. It simply doesn't.

So what point am I missing?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I wouldn't hold anybody's hand if they weren't sure what they were doing with electricity....

Not even a plumber's?

 

[Paul_C]

So what point am I missing?

That when I say I consider it all non-notifiable it doesn't mean that I don't understand there is statutory legislation which says it's notifiable. It just means that I'm not going to notify it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So what point am I missing?

That when I say I consider it all non-notifiable it doesn't mean that I don't understand there is statutory legislation which says it's notifiable.

So in other words you don't consider it non-notifiable.

It just means that I'm not going to notify it.

That's not the same as considering it non-notifiable.

You may decide to break the speed limit because you believe that it's unreasonable and/or that you are competent to drive faster, but that doesn't mean (or shouldn't) that you believe that the speed limit doesn't apply to you and that you are not breaking the law.

 

[Paul_C]

You're trying to read far too much into what I said. My comment was in response to skotl's somewhat tongue-in-cheek list so the comment about "non notifiable" needs to be taken in context.

 

[mbga9pgf]

so as far as I'm concerned all electrical work I do in my own house is not notifiable.

That may well be, but that opinion is so completely at odds with what the law clearly says as to genuinely make you deranged.

Whatever you may think of the desirability of the law, to believe that that opinion means you are not bound by it is mad.

Want to tell me what "laws" have been broken if an individual completes so called "notifiable" work to all the required buildings regulations?

Besides, want to tell me how many DIYers have been prosecuted for completing notifiable works? A law that isnt enforced is not a law in my view. the council can take me to court on their cash (which is exactly why they wont do it by the way) but I wont be paying a cent towards some public sector busybody to tell me what I already know.

1 year in after my DIY rewire, no electric shocks, no fires, no tripping RCDs. The other point to note. Qualified sparks who have completed one or two jobs in my house dont seem to pay any near as much attention to some of the cr*p posted on here. If some of the armchair sparks on here were carrying out work, we would have 6mm cable installed for ring mains and collapsing walls due to the depth of chasing.

In fact, I had to point out to one qualified spark that he handn't correcly protected a submain with an RCD as we are on TT earthing (was going to rely on the supplier 80A fuse). So much for the integrity of the notification schemes. Why did I have to tell a qualified individual he was making a mistake when I was paying him 180 a day?

Too many opinions on here are black and white (check out the 1000 page thread on ring mains vs radials....) when the regs make it blatantly clear a certain amount of interpretation and dare I say COMMON SENSE needs to prevail from time to time in order to complete a job between the ideal solution and the economically realistic one. Of course SAFETY must never be compromised.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Want to tell me what "laws" have been broken if an individual completes so called "notifiable" work to all the required buildings regulations?

The one which requires you to notify.

Besides, want to tell me how many DIYers have been prosecuted for completing notifiable works?

None, but that's not the point.

A law that isnt enforced is not a law in my view.

A view which is so clearly at odds with reality as to be utterly bonkers.

the council can take me to court on their cash (which is exactly why they wont do it by the way) but I wont be paying a cent towards some public sector busybody to tell me what I already know.

Live free or die, eh?

The other point to note. Qualified sparks who have completed one or two jobs in the house dont seem to pay any near as much attention to some of the cr*p posted on here. If some of the armchair sparks on here were carrying out work, we would have 6mm cable installed for ring mains and collapsing walls due to the depth of chasing.

Would we?

You can show, can you, that that is the case, and not just more of your delusional ranting?

Too many opinions on here are black and white (check out the 1000 page thread on ring mains vs radials....)

Where is this 1000 page thread?

 

[mbga9pgf]

You have your opinions BAS. I have mine. try to see things in a different light. Much of the protectionism I read on here seems to hark back to sparks making out their trade is a black art to prevent

1) loss of trade
2) undercutting their daily rate.

I can fully understand that, doesnt mean I subscribe to it nor will pay out due to gypsies warnings that have no basis in reality in my experience.