DIY is not an electrician. No sir, not at all...

[JohnW2]

A law that isnt enforced is not a law in my view.

A view which is so clearly at odds with reality as to be utterly bonkers.

I find that comment hard to understand. Sure, a law is a law regardless of whether it is enforced or not. However, it is you that introduces the word 'reality', and the reality surely is that a law which is not enforced might just as well not exist and, indeed, (in terms of 'reality') effectively doesn't exist.

Kind Regards, John

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[westie101]

I think the reality, along with the breaking of seals issue, is that until someone is killed or severely injured that it is highly unlikely that any prosecutions will take place.

Even then what the prosecution would be for would be up to the authorities though BS7671 would be used as evidence of best practice.

 

[mbga9pgf]

I think the reality, along with the breaking of seals issue, is that until someone is killed or severely injured that it is highly unlikely that any prosecutions will take place.

Even then what the prosecution would be for would be up to the authorities though BS7671 would be used as evidence of best practice.

This is another point. If the DIYer meets all relevant British standards, what law has been broken? I wouldnt call part Pi$$ in respect to the requirement to notify worth of the paper its written on.

If someone shoves their wet fingers into a power socket or light fitting that I installed as a DIYer with full reasonable compliance with to the relevant standards, there would be no case to hold (not that much is going to happen, I have RCD protected all circuits including lighting). This is why the council are more than welcome to busybody and inspect what they like in my home. It meets all relevant standards of installation. I wont be paying for the priveledge. They can have a free cup of tea if they fancy it though.

 

[westie101]

In conversation with a colleague the other week and mention was made of Part P. He told me a friend of his who is an electrician recently received a request from one of the local building inspectors "to accompany him on a few jobs to see what electricians do!".

I doubt more than a few of the "enforcers" actually have any idea what they are talking about.
How to ensure confidence in a system!

 

[JohnW2]

Does anyone (apart from BAS ) really think a judge would be interested in the fact that Joe Bloggs carried out electrical work in his own house in contravention of part P?

Quite so - and even more so if Joe B had undertaken the work in compliance with the (safety etc.) requirements of Part P, the only 'crime' having been a failure to notify.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

I think the reality, along with the breaking of seals issue, is that until someone is killed or severely injured that it is highly unlikely that any prosecutions will take place. Even then what the prosecution would be for would be up to the authorities though BS7671 would be used as evidence of best practice.

Quite so, and if someone was killed as a result of seriously negligent work, they culprit would presumably be charged with manslaughter, not for non-compliance with part P!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[mbga9pgf]

I think the reality, along with the breaking of seals issue, is that until someone is killed or severely injured that it is highly unlikely that any prosecutions will take place. Even then what the prosecution would be for would be up to the authorities though BS7671 would be used as evidence of best practice.

Quite so, and if someone was killed as a result of seriously negligent work, they culprit would presumably be charged with manslaughter, not for non-compliance with part P!

Kind Regards, John.

And rightly so. We all have to take responsibility for our actions. I wouldnt have rewired my own place if I wasnt 100% satisified the job was safe. I spend considerable amounts of time outside of the country (airline pilot) and could do without the lack of sleep due to worry of my wife zapping herself if I had done a bodge job.

 

[JohnW2]

And rightly so. We all have to take responsibility for our actions. I wouldnt have rewired my own place if I wasnt 100% satisified the job was safe. I spend considerable amounts of time outside of the country (airline pilot) and could do without the lack of sleep due to worry of my wife zapping herself if I had done a bodge job.

Exactly. Of course, the problem (which will be used as an arguing point by those in favour of regulation and legislation) is that not everyone is as responsible as you (and I, and many others here) - and some are so uninformed and/or stupid that they don't/can't even recognise that they are doing unsafe things.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[riveralt]

Does anyone (apart from BAS ) really think a judge would be interested in the fact that Joe Bloggs carried out electrical work in his own house in contravention of part P?

Quite so - and even more so if Joe B had undertaken the work in compliance with the (safety etc.) requirements of Part P, the only 'crime' having been a failure to notify.

Kind Regards, John.

I am some what caught between two stools on this one.
As a registered electrician I support the policy of notification under the Building Regulations.
However, as a person who owns a number of properties and in this climate is still buying, I always look with significant interest when I get the vendors TA6 form - in particular section 4.
As part of the purchasing process I always conduct a PIR on the property and it is quite amazing how many times the responses to section 4 are at odds with reality. The net result is sometimes a significant reduction in the price of the property.
It has also opened up a small but growing side of my electrical business in that I now conduct PIR's for a number of purchasers/solicitors when the the TA6 electrical work section is ticked no.

 

[JohnW2]

I am some what caught between two stools on this one. As a registered electrician I support the policy of notification under the Building Regulations. However, as a person who owns a number of properties and in this climate is still buying, I always look with significant interest when I get the vendors TA6 form - in particular section 4. As part of the purchasing process I always conduct a PIR on the property and it is quite amazing how many times the responses to section 4 are at odds with reality. The net result is sometimes a significant reduction in the price of the property.

Yes, I can understand and believe all that.

IMO, one of the greatest problems is that the system is so flawed. If, as unfortunately appears to be the case, notified and/or self-certified work can be very iffy, the whole system is totally undermined. I'm not suggesting or advocating that anyone should fail to notify electrical work when the laws says they should (whatever one thinks of the law/system). However, I was merely supporting and extending holmslaw's point that a court is unlikely to get very excited about failure to notify, per se, particularly if the work itself has been undertaken in accordance with Part P.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[riveralt]

However, I was merely supporting and extending holmslaw's point that a court is unlikely to get very excited about failure to notify, per se, particularly if the work itself has been undertaken in accordance with Part P.

Kind Regards, John.

I agree very unlikely to get to the criminal court - I read something recently that when a LABC fail to identify breaches of the Building Regulations within 12 months the courts are unlikely to support them.
But that time limit won't apply for a civil action. Having said that, in each case I have identified a Building Reg issue, a compromise settlement was made before it got that far.

 

[mbga9pgf]

Does anyone (apart from BAS ) really think a judge would be interested in the fact that Joe Bloggs carried out electrical work in his own house in contravention of part P?

Quite so - and even more so if Joe B had undertaken the work in compliance with the (safety etc.) requirements of Part P, the only 'crime' having been a failure to notify.

Kind Regards, John.

I am some what caught between two stools on this one.
As a registered electrician I support the policy of notification under the Building Regulations.
However, as a person who owns a number of properties and in this climate is still buying, I always look with significant interest when I get the vendors TA6 form - in particular section 4.
As part of the purchasing process I always conduct a PIR on the property and it is quite amazing how many times the responses to section 4 are at odds with reality. The net result is sometimes a significant reduction in the price of the property.
It has also opened up a small but growing side of my electrical business in that I now conduct PIR's for a number of purchasers/solicitors when the the TA6 electrical work section is ticked no.

Thats exactly why I wired using this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100m-Leng...al_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2314aea0a8

 

[riveralt]

Thats exactly why I wired using this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100m-Leng...nents_Supplies_ET&hash=item2314aea0a8[/QUOTE]


But I also check the manufacturing dates and BS numbers on the fittings
£109.50 for 100m of 2.5mm T&E
At that premium over the standard £60 rate - you might even save money by notifying the work

 

[JohnW2]

I agree very unlikely to get to the criminal court - I read something recently that when a LABC fail to identify breaches of the Building Regulations within 12 months the courts are unlikely to support them.

I can well believe that, but what I was talking about is not even a breach of the Building Regs in the normal sense. I was referring to a situation in which all of the work had been undertaken in compliance with the technical regulations, the only breach having been failure to notify LABC in order that the compliance with technical requirments was formally 'confirmed'.

Kind Regards, John.