DIY wiring to Part P regulations

[Fridgemonkey]

I'm planning to wire my newly built extension as notified to my local building control who say I can do this providing they can inspect at first fix stage and I find someone to provide test certification. This can be different for different local authorities and finding clarity on this procedure can be difficult.

But not as difficult as finding someone to test and certify your circuits! Building control gives links to appropriate associations but you then find (at least this is what the electrician may say) "No mate, my Association won't let me check other people's circuits."

Has anyone else had this problem and how have they overcome this please? Effectively the new Part P regulation is saying "Yes, you can wire your own house but no one will actually test it so no you can't not if you want building control to sign off your work!

 

[Spark123]

It is up to your LABC to provide any testing they deem required - that is what you are paying them for!
Have a read of 1.26 here: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf

 

[wingcoax]

Some LABC's will co-operate and some won't. As far as certifying some-one else's work when you cant see most of it you will have to be lucky, as the certifying sparky will be putting his/her reputation ang future career on the line.

 

[Steve]

You have 2 (legal and legit) options:

1. Wire it yourself and get LABC to test and certify. You will need to pay them the appropriate fee (which for small jobs may be more than paying an electrician)

2. Have an electrician wire and certify it. He will also need to certify but his professional scheme means he only pays a fraction of what you'd pay to notify.

There is a third option, but its not legit - this is to do it yourself and have a spark sign it off. You will struggle to find a spark who will do this.

 

[rebuke]

The LABC cannot insist you get someone else to inspect and test, see this circular sent round by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister: http://www.communities.gov.uk/plann...ionalcircularletters/buildingregulationspart/

There have been reports that some local authorities are asking householders to have electrical installation work inspected, tested and certificated by someone other than the person carrying out the work. Section 33(2) of the Building Act 1984 (which would give power to local authorities to require persons carrying out building work to carry out such reasonable tests, at the person's expense, of or in connection with the work for the purpose of enabling local authorities to ascertain whether the work complies with the requirements of the Regulations) has not been commenced. This means in our opinion that local authorities do not have the power to require householders to retain an electrician to test and certificate the work in accordance with BS 7671. Local authorities which have adopted such a practice should discontinue it immediately.

A number of LABCs blatantly ignore it, others (like mine) will try to claim you have to get someone to test it, but if you quote the circular at them, they relent and agree it's their job to test...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I find someone to provide test certification.

Did they say what sort of "certification"?

 

[LiamPope]

Count yourself lucky Rebuke - I can quote whatever bits of Part P or letters from the government I like - my LABC will inspect, but they aint gonna test. I've still got the councillor, local MP, local government ombudsman, etc to threaten them with, but I suspect that path goes all the way to court!

Fridgemonkey - as BAS says, have you asked them what certification they require? Mine are asking for a PIR on completion of my full rewire, not the full EIC. On the strength of that they'll issue my completion certificate. Nothing illegal about engaging a spark to come and carry out a PIR, and won't cost a great deal. If your LABC want a full EIC there is no legal way you can get a spark to provide one. You mention your LABC will inspect and that they want 'test certification'. That would suggest that like mine they are after a PIR. Get them to confirm.

Liam

 

[Jaymack]

But not as difficult as finding someone to test and certify your circuits! Building control gives links to appropriate associations but you then find (at least this is what the electrician may say) "No mate, my Association won't let me check other people's circuits."

An EIC is required by a registered electrician that requires a designer signature amongst other requirements - he/she couldn't sign for the routing and the condition of the cables, if he wasn't involved, a way round this is to get a part P registree to work with you, at the start of the project for the design and installation supervision, whilst you carry out the work then an EIC is finally issued.
There's an initiative currently in progress with all the LBA's, NAPIT and the NICEIC etc., for a register of electricians, to carry out the inspection and testing of installations carried out by DIY'ers and unregistered people for part P.

Regards

 

[LiamPope]

There's an initiative currently in progress with all the LBA's, NAPIT and the NICEIC etc., for a register of electricians, to carry out the inspection and testing of installations carried out by DIY'ers and unregistered people for part P.

Regards

Is there? Got any details? If I hold out (i guess I dont really need my completion cert for years to come), are my LABC likely to change their tune due to this new initiative?

 

[Jaymack]

There's an initiative currently in progress with all the LBA's, NAPIT and the NICEIC etc., for a register of electricians, to carry out the inspection and testing of installations carried out by DIY'ers and unregistered people for part P.
Regards

Is there? Got any details? If I hold out (i guess I dont really need my completion cert for years to come), are my LABC likely to change their tune due to this new initiative?

I have been going through the process with NAPIT, for the past few months, I'm now registered with 3 local LBA's, the kick off meetings are due anytime this month. Basic requirements were: - apprenticeship, 5 years experience, insurances and 2391 & 2381 within the last five years. Whether it will be lucrative or not for the participants, is another question.
Hopefully this will introduce some order to the current fiasco.

Regards

 

[ericmark]

It seems from letter from my MP it has been realized that the charging scale and a few other things with Part P need redress and the councils are to be given more latitude with how it is run.
However the paper work as it is shown in the Part P document as it stands does not make sense.
1) The Installation cert can only be completed by the person controlling the work which is LABC but also the LABC is not required to complete an installation cert. However an equivalent can be issued and because BS7671 is not law of course it is not required.
2) To complete a PIR the installation certificate should be made available to the person doing PIR so a full PIR is not possible without the installation cert.
3) The LABC is responsible for site safety not only of course as a completed job but during the work. They should therefore satisfy themselves that the person doing the work is skilled enough to complete the work safely. If the person doing the work is not skilled to point where he can inspect and test it is their responsibility to ensure this work is completed by someone who is qualified and pay any fees involved.

The more one reads the Part P the more one realizes it is not really possible for a DIY person to be able to complete Part P work and comply with the requirements and really only a Skilled person who is not registered can really comply. The same as with Gas Safe on gas stuff. And the government has asked to LABC to do a impossible task. At least in respect to DIY work.
We hear terms like first and second fix. This is all very well in a new house but on a rewire there is no defined first and second fix.
The only method would be a method statement and for the LABC to point out where they want to inspect. Since most DIY is done on a weekend and LABC don't work weekends and normally power is needed for fridge etc so to leave without power until inspected is not possible.

 

[Dippy]

It is truly a shame that this aspect of part P was not thought out properly and that the LABCs vary so much. I am certainly glad that my own LABC was so understanding for me to self-certify my own work on my house.

Having been through the whole DIY route myself, I can offer the following advice:
1) Ask yourself if you really have the knowledge and skills to do the work. I'm a chartered electrical engineer and did loads of electrical work on my last house. But when I decided to re-wire my new house since the arrival of part P, I soon realised how little I really knew. I had to re-train myself before I proved to myself that I was competent to do the work.
2) Do your own periodic inspection AND write the report. Not only is it a fantastic learning experience, but you'll end up knowing more about your installation than any 'brought-in' electrician would, and it will put you in the ideal position to be able to extend or modify the installation.
3) Get proper test equipment. I thought I was in a good position having a decent multimeter (left over for when I used to do practical electronics) and even an oscilloscope. How wrong I was. When you consider the sheer effort it can take chasing walls, drilling joists, pulling cables and nailing capping (which I now hate), how can you live with the risk that you might have damaged the cable? I couldn't - I needed the confidence that the continuity and especially the insulation resistance of any cable I had installed was good straight away so that I could get the plasterer in etc. The thought of not knowing if the installation was good until it was finished for a complete inspection & test sends a shivver down my spine! I got a used tester off e-bay and had it's calibration checked. One of my best investments.
4) Given the proper equipment, the testing is really easy.
5) If at the start of the project I knew what I know now, I probably would have given up the idea and paid an electrician to do the work. However I am glad that I did it myself

 

[bernardgreen]

Building a large post and beam timber framed house was the DIY job my wife and I did in 1980 / 81

With that experience I can totally agree with the observations that Dippy has made. We too self certified many of the parts of the building control. At the same time we were also glad of the help and advice given to us by the building inspector.