DIY Work On Gas Installations

[Paul Barker]

This is a good thing. One of the biggest problmes we presently encounter, demonstrated by many questions here, is that the outgoing home owner does not pass on manufacturers instructions or satisfactory knowledge of the systems to the incoming. Lack of manufacturers instructions would be brought up in such a report, and the onus would be on the outgoing to obtain them.

The amount of calls we get because people don't understand about filling loops for instance. I went to one last new years day, they'd been in the house a year.

Now I don't know whether you people have better things to do on new years day I certainly do. It's nausius the amount of ignorant questions about such things we see here, which can only demonstate incorrect installation (because the final part of the benchmark log involves a signature from customer to say they have been fully informed as to the working of the system)or inadequate handover at house sale.

 

[esra_ptrap]

I'm with megawatt on this one.

The biggest % of homes will have had all work done legitimately prior to the current regs and so have little or no current paperwork ... Or, more likely, have valid paperwork from fitters who are no longer trading

The house is all ready for sale and a home inspector has to come in and assess the gas and electrics ... How are they (or anyone else) going to do this as all the important stuff will be hidden?
This is a minefield in the laying which if not managed carefully will cause everyone concerned a whole load of grief and £££'s.

 

[esra_ptrap]

Now I don't know whether you people have better things to do on new years day I certainly do.

I do which is why, if I have a plumbing problem, I call a plumber and pay £££'s if it's on New Years Day ... Have you considered a change of career?

It's nausius the amount of ignorant questions about such things we see here, which can only demonstate incorrect installation (because the final part of the benchmark log involves a signature from customer to say they have been fully informed as to the working of the system)or inadequate handover at house sale.

You can inform my 87 year old granny all you like and demonstrate until you're blue in the face ... She can't even work out how to change TV channels so I doubt she'll grasp the concept of a filling loop

 

[sum1]

I'm with megawatt on this one.

The biggest % of homes will have had all work done legitimately prior to the current regs and so have little or no current paperwork ... Or, more likely, have valid paperwork from fitters who are no longer trading

The house is all ready for sale and a home inspector has to come in and assess the gas and electrics ... How are they (or anyone else) going to do this as all the important stuff will be hidden?
This is a minefield in the laying which if not managed carefully will cause everyone concerned a whole load of grief and £££'s.

This is quite true and will pose a significant problem for the home inspector who can only excercise judgment at the time of inspection. Obviously if there is an evidence trail even if out of date (there should be up to date evidence of normal servicing) then that should be acceptable. but the gas regs are constantly changing, for example recent changes to ventilation requirements .. so if the installation does not appear to meet current standards then the inspector will have a duty to comment in the report.

 

[Paul Barker]

Esra,

I changed to gas fitting from nursing, and am pleased to have done so.

I wouldn't install a boiler with a filling loop for your granny. I would fit her a Buderus 500 19R, and though she has to have time control of heating and hot water I would probably set for her the hot water times and make the heating come on all day, put a high visibilty day glow spot on her room thermostat and explain to her that she moves it to the right when she is cold and to the left when hot. I would give her a full 5 year parts and labour guarantee on all the installation not just the boiler, and if she is anything like the old people I have already done this for she'll call me whenever a light bulb blows or when the fridge needs defrosting.

There are no new ventilation requirements, they have alwayts existed, just bad installation practice in the past means the country was littered with not to current standards installations. Now that these have been changed to the at risk catagory something should be done about it. The fact they were there in the first place demonstrates the need for more correctly trained conscientious professionals, and so argues my case for me.

We are not only suffering from diy work, but from shoddy professional work. British gas is not imune, for years their priority was to sell gas.

 

[meldrew's_mate]

Lots of lovely heated debate going on here. I f I may add my two-penneth...

Quoting the Gas Regulations (GS(I&U)R 1998)
Regulation 3 Para 1 " No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so"

Regulation 3 para 3 ".... blah, blah...no employee or self employed person shall carry out any work on a gas fitting...blah, blah... unless that person is a member of a class of persons approved...blah, blah... by the Health & Safety Executive."

Regulation 2 defines "work" as (amongst other things) " maintaining, servicing, permanently adjusting, disconnecting, repairing, altering, or renewing a fitting, or purging it of air or gas."
It also defines a fitting as "...pipework, valves, regulators and meters, apparatus and appliances designed to be used by the consumer.... blah, blah.."

The only bodies recognised by HSE at present as classes of persons are British Gas employees and CORGI registered installers. So there is the legal argument, note that Reg 3 (1) says "No person shall...unless..", which means only CORGIs and BGs are allowed to - forget the Englishman's home is his castle nonsense; tomorrow it could be someone elses home.
Work does not mean that you're paid for it, cash, cheque, or BJ.
Gas fitting means just about anything carrying gas, or designed to carry gas. This also includes flues, in my opinion more dangerous than the gas itself is the flue gas (sorry its Yoda-speak but you get my drift)


After April this year ALL gas appliances fitted have to be registered with local Building Control Dept., you can register it youself, but they'll charge you about £200 for the priviledge, I can self-certify as a CORGI installer for less than a fiver (plus my mark-up of course!)

Part P means electrics also have to be registered unless done by a registered fitter (several schemes)

But the real clinchermust be not the power of Law, but the power of the Insurance Co. Faced with the possibility of not being adequately covered (let me finish the argument before you shoot me down) should his castle burn down, Joe Public WILL comply and start asking the right questions of his tradesmen. And how will he get educated? Those lovely insurance co.s will remind him with a little slip inserted into next years premium reminder that soon he'll be required to have a full electrical inspection or he won't be covered for electrical damage.....KER-CHING. Rear-end twitches big time!

Now it's only a small step from weeding out the Cowboys in electrical work to doing the same in Gas, and think of the savings the insurance co.s will make if less houses burn down or blocks of flats blow-up.!!!

Sorry for rambling on.I got a lot off my chest, now I'll go and mow the lawn.......PJ

 

[megawatt]

Have you highlighted person to infer that it would be okay for my pet chimpanzee to carry out the work?

Everyone can read the regs and infer different meanings such is the power of statute law and the need to be a legal beagle to make sense of it and make loads of money.

I believe that para 3 and classes of persons relates to tradesmen carrying out work for remuneration, para 1 relates to everyone and requires competancy which could be demonstrated without being CORGI registered ... See, two of us read the same regs and interpret them completely differently ... Isn't the English language a wonderfully vague thing

Before you mow the lawn be sure to check that the socket you're plugging it into is connected to a 30mA RCD for your own protection ... Don't bother if its petrol of course but please read and follow all of the safety advice which came with the mower

 

[esra_ptrap]

Paul Barker wrote:

I changed to gas fitting from nursing, and am pleased to have done so.

Another loss for our over-burdoned NHS

My white haired old granny needs a nurse too, if I'd known you could have done her boiler and given her injections, true multi-skilling

I wouldn't install a boiler with a filling loop for your granny. I would fit her a Buderus 500 19R, and though she has to have time control of heating and hot water I would probably set for her the hot water times and make the heating come on all day, put a high visibilty day glow spot on her room thermostat and explain to her that she moves it to the right when she is cold and to the left when hot. I would give her a full 5 year parts and labour guarantee on all the installation not just the boiler, and if she is anything like the old people I have already done this for she'll call me whenever a light bulb blows or when the fridge needs defrosting.

You obviously take the job seriously and give value for money to your customers ... I'm not sure you represent the majority of tradesmen I've come across though

 

[ollski]

para 1 relates to everyone and requires competancy which could be demonstrated without being CORGI registered ... See, two of us read the same regs and interpret them completely differently ... Isn't the English language a wonderfully vague thing

Your interpretation is wrong though....when you pass your exams you will receive a certificate with the words 'certificate of competance' printed on, nothing to do with corgi at all although once you have it you then have the opportunity to apply to be corgi registered.

 

[bripl]

interpretation of the regs is a grey area.when in court it is a completely different thing.the regs state you can leave a permissable drop,try telling that to a judge/qc/barrister i have and believe me the reaction was astounding,in a court of law competence is defined by the relevant acs NOTHING ELSE WAS ACCEPTABLE in my particular case so the bottom line was no acs = not competent as i held all nessecary elements i was deemed competent.diy gas as much as you like you will be ok till it goes wrong then come back and post the outcome you will hold a very different view

 

[chrishutt]

Just to clarify the position about who is allowed to carry out gas work, the Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations 1998 are published by the Health & Safety Commission as part of a Approved Code Of Practice and Guidance which clarifies such questions as to how the Regulations apply to a DIY installer.

...anyone carrying out such (gas) work must have the necessary competence, as required by regulation 3(1). However, membership of an HSE approved class of persons (Corgi)(under regulation 3(3)) is required only by businesses carrying out gas fitting work...

The bits in italics are my insertions, for clarity. While the guidance is not itself part of the Regulations, we must nevertheless accept the guidance given by this document (ACOP/guidance) unless we have solid grounds for challenging it.

 

[Paul Barker]

Thanks esra,

I'm not looking forward to old age, modern electronic society has completely ignored their special needs.

Judging by the attitude to fellow human beings of the age groiup who will sort out my problems when I'm old I'll probably not last long in their care. What they need is a war or national service or a rocket up their bums, like make them work for benefit and if they can't support a child from their earned income sterilisation, communal housing at low cost if they can't pay their own way, actually just bring back the work house.

 

[chrishutt]

Paul, I should have guessed you'd be a wishy washy liberal.

 

[megawatt]

bripl ... The bottom line then is ... If you DIY, don't do it wrong ... Amen

 

[ollski]

bripl ... The bottom line then is ... If you DIY, don't do it wrong ... Amen

Eureka exactly......but hmmm how would you know if you had done it wrong if you have never learnt how to do it? etc, etc ad infinitum.