Do Gas Regs apply retrospectively?

[Eh_Dinna_Ken]

Hello - my younger brother has had a gas engineer inspect his heating/ hw system as part of an annual service. He has a wall mounted gas fire in his l/room which has been there since mid 80s era. Its not a living flame one, its the type with the white vented panels which have the small pilot flame at the bottom (?).
The engineer has decided the fire place is unsafe as he does not have a hearth in front of the fire. The fire has been there for years and I was wondering whether he needs to provide a hearth considering it has been like that for so long... I know it sounds lame but can you really have your entire gas supply cut off because of this? Thats whats happened.

Grim. Hope you can help!

 

[Razor900]

Best for you to post a picture of the fireplace along with telling us how far off the floor the bottom of the fire is, (not that it's measured from there but will give us an idea)

 

[doitall]

If the engineer has ID'd it then he can disconnect and make it safe with consent.

However if your brother refused consent, the engineer will phone the gas supplier and they will cap the meter.

 

[Eh_Dinna_Ken]

Cant post a photo as he lives miles away from me. The fire is about 300mm off the floor though. It's got a naff wooden type exterior cladding and has 3 of those white vented panels that seem to spread the gas flame.

Sorry!

Does anyone know if the regs apply retrospectively? If the regs change do you have to upgrade your existing installation to fully comply?

Seems pretty onerous to say the least!

 

[Boilerman2]

There is a minimum distance that the fire has to be away from any combustible surface (my books are in my van which is not at home this weekend) but I think the mesurement is about 350mm, this is measured from the bottom of the Radiants. if the fire is wall mounted there must be sufficient clearance between the carpet and the fire.

The result of this not being complied with should have resulted in the unsafe procedure being followed depending on how severe the problem this should have been deemed NCS (not to current standard) or AR (at Risk) in which case you should have been advised not to use the fire, or ID (immediately Dangerous) this would be the case if the carpet was actually scorched, in which case the fire should have been disconnected (with your permission) or if no permission the Gas Transporter should have been notified.

If the Gas has been disconnected to all appliances this seems a little extreme, BUT OF COURSE WITHOUT A SITE VISIT IT IS HARD TO COMMENT!

 

[Eh_Dinna_Ken]

If the engineer has ID'd it then he can disconnect and make it safe with consent.

However if your brother refused consent, the engineer will phone the gas supplier and they will cap the meter.

The entire supply is cut off - even though its only the fire the engineer was concerned about. I have read a bit more about this online and cannot see how it is an Immediate Danger - considering the appliance works correctly and has been installed like that for years.

Surely it's Not Current Standard

 

[Razor900]

For me insufficient clearance is NCS

Signs of scorching AR

On fire ID

 

[Boilerman2]

As I have said without being on site it is hard to comment I would get a second opinion, but at vworst the fire should be capped, the heating hot water and cooking should still be availible to you?

 

[Boilerman2]

Well put Razor!!

 

[doitall]

We need all the information really but it does sound OTT.

Wasn't BG by any chance.

 

[boabcelt]

Agreed Razor. The distance from floor covering to top of burner is a minimum of 225mm ( or whatever the manufacturer specifies) If no signs of damage then the installation is ncs. If there are signs of heat damage, at risk and if in flames, it is immediately dangerous. Just noticed yer in the kingdom. Whaur de ye bide?

 

[Boilerman2]

I had a BBU/Fire a few years ago wall mounted no hearth, my gut feeling was bad, but after checking regs and measuring I found i had the absolute minimum distance, so had to let it go, things are not alway black or white i;m afraid!

 

[kirkgas]

Hello - my younger brother has had a gas engineer inspect his heating/ hw system as part of an annual service. He has a wall mounted gas fire in his l/room which has been there since mid 80s era. Its not a living flame one, its the type with the white vented panels which have the small pilot flame at the bottom (?).
The engineer has decided the fire place is unsafe as he does not have a hearth in front of the fire. The fire has been there for years and I was wondering whether he needs to provide a hearth considering it has been like that for so long... I know it sounds lame but can you really have your entire gas supply cut off because of this? Thats whats happened.

Grim. Hope you can help!

first thing, is your brother a tenant or owner, and second thing was the engineer self employed or an employee? first port of call is to contact the gas engineer (or his company) again, ask for clarification of what he found and how he is classifying it. a warning label should be attached and a warning notice completed and left on site, what does the warning notice say? if no warning notice left advise the firm that the gas engineer he is contravening the 1998 GSIUR and unless he gets his arse back and uncaps it and then turns it off, you will contact GSR to report him, this might make him more accomodating!!
in general the gas regs are not retrospective, however if the fire has never been right then the guy has been the first to (nearly) do his job.
from memory (always dodgy) the minimum distance from flame to floor is 225mm for a wall mounted fire to combustible material so we need more info to confirm what needs done.
i suggest from the limited info the classification is NCS or AR (as others have said) this means the fire should have been turned off and the customer advised to get the work done before using it (this covers the gas guy and means the customer uses it at their own risk) so it would appear he has been a bit OTT, let us know how you go

 

[kirkgas]

I had a BBU/Fire a few years ago wall mounted no hearth, my gut feeling was bad, but after checking regs and measuring I found i had the absolute minimum distance, so had to let it go, things are not alway black or white i;m afraid!

your point is contraditory, you measured, it was correct, you had to leave it on, that is the best definition of black and white you can get, why did you want to switch off someones heating when the install complied with MI? if there were any other issues you would act accordingly.
i always comply with the regs and walk away quite happy, we all use engineering judgement on a "dodgy" spillage test and call it ID as we err on the side of caution, but in reality this is black and white again as i ask myself "is this a satisfactory test result" as it is "dodgy" my answer is no so it is ID

 

[Steve69the69Gas]

Disagree, the fire is NCS. Razor is bang on the money. The gas guy .......even if he decided ID he should have only capped the fire. Nobody is gonna get hung for erring on the side of caution, but, some RGIs seem to go OTT most of the time,which is prolly down to lack of confidence in his/her abilities, knowledge or experience.


Or he was plain lazy as it was Friday afternoon.