do i draw my money out now

[nickso]

But won't they just adapt to a new way of doing things that doesn't put so much emphasis on oil ?

How long will that take?

I wouldn't worry about it for two reasons. It's out of your control and you are likely to be dead before it's as bad as Joe says.

 

[joe-90]

Hopefully that will be true if you die in the next 20 years. Your grandchildren will starve but you won't see it.

 

[joe-90]

But won't they just adapt to a new way of doing things that doesn't put so much emphasis on oil ?

If you find a way then let the world know about it. So far, no-one has come up with anything.

 

[JohnD]

Oil isn't running out. It's just the ability of oil fields to maintain what is there. No new oil means no new growth - which means economic collapse.

When you say "no new oil" do you mean there is a date beyond which no new reserves are discovered; or no existing reserves become economically exploitable?

Is this a date in the future, or do you think the date has already passed?

 

[nickso]

Hopefully that will be true if you die in the next 20 years. Your grandchildren will starve but you won't see it.

However long there is it's still out of my control. What anyone else suffers is their lookout.

 

[joe-90]

Oil isn't running out. It's just the ability of oil fields to maintain what is there. No new oil means no new growth - which means economic collapse.

When you say "no new oil" do you mean there is a date beyond which no new reserves are discovered; or no existing reserves become economically exploitable?

Is this a date in the future, or do you think the date has already passed?

What I think is that we have reached the peak point - so oil prices rose suddenly (year or so ago). The new higher cost meant we used less - and the price fell a bit (which is where we are now). However, India and China are buying ever larger quantities - so that will cause a shortage and the price will rise - so we'll use less and the price will fall a bit. We are sort of see-sawing. The problem is, that as the price rises - then production slows and with it growth. As growth stagnates and falls we get recession. The big problem is that we cannot produce more than 87 million barrels per day - but we need more. Do you think we can?

 

[JohnD]

I think (1) we will (have to) learn to get by with less (2) I haven't yet seen a clear statement that we have passed, or reached "Peak Oil" or what date is was/will be (3) As oil prices go up, it will (has) become economically viable to exploit reserves that were previously uneconomic. (4) further reserves continue to be found, but I have not seen a clear statement on what "no new oil" means.

A petrochemical exploration geologist once told me that there are never centuries of untapped oil known, usually about 10-20 years reserves, because until you start to run out, you don't go looking for more.

I don't doubt that it will continue to get more expensive, and that's why (some of us) are looking for alternatives, and for reduced consumption.

 

[Susiejb]

Your grandchildren will starve but you won't see it.

Joe I do take your point about the economy etc. but I do also think that you are rather exaggerating when you talk of starvation ...... the human race has a huge capacity for survival, also you have to take into account advances in technology ...... if you look at say the last 20 years we have made huge technological progress and also in ways of producing food more economically,not that I agree with the way the genuine farmers have been sidelined I don't, but they do have ways now of mass production.
Also I think that we are now totally spoilt and materialistic so if it is necessary for survival that people have to revert to having less then I don't think it would be a bad thing at all.
But starvation, I just don't think it will happen in the UK.

 

[Norcon]

Google wrote

World hunger is increasing, with an estimated 842 million people going to bed hungry every night. Most people suffering from hunger live in Africa and Latin America, but 34 million are in the former Soviet Union and 10 million live in the rich industrialised countries.

 

[JohnD]

y'know, Norcon, "Google Wrote" really isn't a convincing argument. Can't you do any better?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=elvis+lives

 

[Norcon]

No I can't do any better and don't care too.
People are already starving.
And the world is flowing with oil. Supposedly.

 

[Susiejb]

I assume Norcon that you are saying my assumption is wrong.....not wanting to take the thread too far from the original point but I just think 'shame on us' as a human race that wealth is so unfairly distributed, the fact that so many people go hungry in even the rich industrialised countries is surely shameful.
However I think Joe did state somewhere on this thread that there are just too many people on the planet so no doubt that doesn't help matters.

 

[JohnD]

well, at least the population will start dropping in India and China.

With all this killing of girl babies, there won't be enough wives and mothers to go round.

 

[Norcon]

Google wrote

Holding my arm tight and with tears in her eyes, Vaira told me of the different ways in which girl children are murdered in the village.

Some babies are buried alive or interred in pots where it takes up to two hours for them to suffocate. Others have their mouths stuffed with wet cloths or are slammed against walls. Or an infant may be fed the poisonous sap of a local plant which destroys the internal organs, causing convulsions and internal haemorrhaging. But perhaps the most horrific method is "dry drowning", whereby the open mouth of a baby girl, searching for her mother's nipple, receives instead a handful of grain which chokes the child to death.

 

[joe-90]

Your grandchildren will starve but you won't see it.

Joe I do take your point about the economy etc. but I do also think that you are rather exaggerating when you talk of starvation ...... the human race has a huge capacity for survival, also you have to take into account advances in technology ...... if you look at say the last 20 years we have made huge technological progress and also in ways of producing food more economically,not that I agree with the way the genuine farmers have been sidelined I don't, but they do have ways now of mass production.
Also I think that we are now totally spoilt and materialistic so if it is necessary for survival that people have to revert to having less then I don't think it would be a bad thing at all.
But starvation, I just don't think it will happen in the UK.

Intensive farming is a product of oil technology. Without oil and natural gas it isn't possible to feed the UK population. We literally EAT oil - not to mention processing and transport. When cheap oil has gone - we're in big trouble. JohnD prefers not to believe the obvious because it means his grandchildren will either live in abject poverty or worse. As far as cutting back goes - that means less production - and less production means recession and depression. Our economic model is built upon endless growth. When the growth stops - the whole lot collapses. Didn't you look at those videos earlier on in the thread? You should do - you'll see how our economy works - and how sick it is. Starvation for your grandchildren is a distinct possibility.


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