Do I have 3 phase in my 1930s built house?

[JohnW2]

Just rang Power networks and explained the situation. They said an an electrician should be able should be able to tell from looking at it if its a 3phase head ....

They are obviously right in the sense that anyone looking at it (externally) can see that (a) it is physically a "3-phase head" and (b) that it is currently be used to provide a single-phase supply. As we know, someone needs to look inside it, and then, again, it should be fairly obvious whether all three phases are present.

It seems the long and short of it is that if they were to come out and replace the cutout theyed replace the lot, trench a new cable into the house along with the new cutout. And thats 3k.

That sounds daft, and quite probably incorrect. As has been said, you need to get someone who knows what they are talking about on-site. As has been implied, if you were to tell them that it has been suggested to you that the cutout may not be safe, someone will probably appear pronto!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

 

[Demon73]

Cheers fellas, ive a friend whos a very experienced sparks. He said hell pop over and have a look, quite how he intends to 'look' I dont know.
I think as said above it is a 3 phase head for sure, but we dont know if the 3rd phase is present. Another thing we dont know is if the cutout is full of bitumen, which could complicate things.

Re the DNO:- Be easy enough to say I thought I could smell burning, that I noticed the cutout getting warm etc. Shame youve got to play the game just to someone who knows on site.

 

[JohnW2]

Cheers fellas, ive a friend whos a very experienced sparks. He said hell pop over and have a look, quite how he intends to 'look' I dont know. I think as said above it is a 3 phase head for sure, but we dont know if the 3rd phase is present. Another thing we dont know is if the cutout is full of bitumen, which could complicate things.

Fair enough. If he is very experienced, I presume your friend will not do anything 'silly'.

Re the DNO:- Be easy enough to say I thought I could smell burning, that I noticed the cutout getting warm etc. Shame youve got to play the game just to someone who knows on site.

Yes, it's a bit of a shame, but I fear it is often the only way.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Demon73]

On closer inspection, the cutout is full of pitch, the small cap just the to left of the untapped line comes off easy, look inside and it full of black goo.

 

[JohnW2]

On closer inspection, the cutout is full of pitch, the small cap just the to left of the untapped line comes off easy, look inside and it full of black goo.

What fun for someone!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

That's fairly normal. Until relatively recently the cables uses needed sealing at the end to prevent moisture ingress which would quickly cause the insulation to fail. Eg, in a PILC cable, the insulation is paper - which obviously must be completely dry to remain an insulator. PILC = Paper Insulated, Lead Covered - core(s) insulated with paper, then wrapped in a continuous lead tube to make it impervious to moisture.

 

[Demon73]

Definitely learning at a rate, thanks again gents.

 

[JohnW2]

Definitely learning at a rate, thanks again gents.

... and, for your continuing education, if/when the pitch gets warm (or hot!) it often starts very slowly 'flowing out' (or even 'dripping out') of the cutout - which I believe is one of the most common reasons for DNOs being called by worried consumers.

Kind Regards, John

 

[aesmith]

There is only one way.

Get permission from the DNO for your abnormal loads. It's in the terms & conditions in the contract you signed, you really must not ignore them.

Our of interest what does your own supply contract say exactly about notifying and/or asking permission for special or abnormal loads? I'm not doubting that such conditions exist, but they are well hidden (in our case anyway) so wondered how clear they are in your own contract.

 

[JohnW2]

Our of interest what does your own supply contract say exactly about notifying and/or asking permission for special or abnormal loads? I'm not doubting that such conditions exist, but they are well hidden (in our case anyway) so wondered how clear they are in your own contract.

I've often wondered that - and any contract I may have had will be so many years old that it would be lost in a pile of dust somewhere. I certainly have not signed any new contract during the 30 or so years I've been here (despite 'evolution' of who I was actually paying for my electricity), and I'm far from convinced that I signed (or saw) one even when I moved in!

Also, as I recently asked, I wonder what DNOs generally say when they are asked for permission to use 'special or abnormal loads' (given that I presume that at least some people, even though undoubtedly not 'most', will seek such permission). As I asked before, has anyone got any experience of how DNOs respond to such requests?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

IHNI - never needed to look.

But it is in the National Terms Of Connection.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3242622/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3242645/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3243395/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3243458/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3243491/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3243510/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3243784/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3243789/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3245098/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3246687/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/posts/3247768/​

 

[aesmith]

Not trying to be pig headed. I must admit I didn't read the National Terms of Connection before signing with our supplier, but I have them the screen right now and I can't find any definition of what specific loads you need to ask permission for. It's not an easy document to read. Hence my asking whether anyone could point to the actual clause with that definition. There is stuff about exceeding the capacity of the supply, and the OP's 23kW converter might well fall into that category.

That previous thread doesn't help except maybe to suggest that there's no explicit definition.

 

[SimonH2]

The contract from BG (they supplied our new house when we moved in) does include the NTC by reference. I would be very very surprised to find any supplier missing that crucial bit.
Even if you've never signed anything, once you accept a supply (eg move into a house and use the electricity) then you are entering an implied contract for supply.

 

[JohnW2]

... There is stuff about exceeding the capacity of the supply, and the OP's 23kW converter might well fall into that category.

As has been commented before, that 23kw is simply the maximum capability of the converter. The actual amount of power drawn will be dependent upon the loads connected to the converter which, as we've been told, would never be anything like 23kw.

That previous thread doesn't help except maybe to suggest that there's no explicit definition.

I think that has been the conclusion every time we have discussed this matter.

In practice, the reality seems to be that, whether permission was sought or not, the issue of what loads are being applied to the network by a consumer will never arise unless use of those loads is producing problems or inconvenience to other nearby consumers.

I cannot see how, in the absence of anything more explicit in the 'National Terms', any normal consumer could be expected to be able to know whether his/her usage of the electricity supply might have adverse effects on the network or other consumers supplied by the network, and I would imagine (hope) that any sensible Court would take the same view.

Kind Regards, John