Donald Tusk

[Notch7]

United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union

In other words the same position that labour want.

A soft Brexit which meant staying in the single market and customs union isnt an option and never has been, despite what people like Nick Clegg have suggested.

 

[JohnD]

the same position that labour want.

What a pity the brexiteers, and the cons, and you, never told us what position they wanted to end up in.

Perhaps it was this one, and Buffoon, Pob and Smith were just trying to deceive the voters.

If they'd wanted to maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union they could have achieved it with a great deal less senseless fuss and bother by staying in.

 

[SirGalahad]

In other words the same position that labour want.

A soft Brexit which meant staying in the single market and customs union isnt an option and never has been, despite what people like Nick Clegg have suggested.

So what would you think should happen? It seems no one can agree on what to do.

 

[Doggit]

What a pity the brexiteers, and the cons, and you, never told us what position they wanted to end up in

Come on John, we've told you time and time again, that in deciding to quit, we'd accept that there'd be negotiations to NEGOTIATE AND WORK OUT an exit position. Your concept is like deciding you want a divorce, and then asking what sort of settlement you'll be given before you decide to accept it or not.

Out means out, but yes, this version isn't a good one, and I'm pretty disgusted with the terms they're reaching. I can only hope that things improve before too long, but on the progress so far, I'm not being realistic.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

In other words the same position that labour want.
A soft Brexit which meant staying in the single market and customs union isnt an option and never has been, despite what people like Nick Clegg have suggested.

So what would you think should happen? It seems no one can agree on what to do.

Or more importantly, how do you achieve full alignment and an open border without being in the single market and customs union.

The document commits both sides to an open border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, and that there will be "no new regulatory barriers" between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
It also commits to the UK leaving the EU's single market and customs union.
These two positions appear to be in contradiction.
If Britain does become a "third country" - that is trading with the EU as other non-EU countries outside the single market and the customs union do - then border controls will be necessary.
And that open border will become very much more closed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42281217

 

[JohnD]

we'd accept that there'd be negotiations to NEGOTIATE AND WORK OUT an exit position.

"Vote for out! I don't know what you'll get in the way of citizens rights, trade agreements, border controls or ongoing payments, but I can promise you £350m million a week for the NHS!"

So the only firm figure was a lie, and everything else was undecided and uncommitted.

What did you think you were voting for?

 

[Doggit]

What did you think you were voting for

If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times, we voted to get out, end of, that all, nothing more. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be getting that, but we didn't fall for the lies, nor for £350m, and yes, everything else was undecided and uncommitted. If a lot more people had accepted the concept that the referendum was won by the Brexiteers, and that meant democracy should be respected, then we wouldn't be in this mess now, so this is really the fault of the Remoaners that wanted to sabotage things, and didn't care what damage they caused.

 

[EFLImpudence]

but we didn't fall for the lies, nor for £350m

Your posts in another thread would seem to prove you did and still are falling for lies.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

.. If a lot more people had accepted the concept that the referendum was won by the Brexiteers, and that meant democracy should be respected, then we wouldn't be in this mess now, so this is really the fault of the Remoaners that wanted to sabotage things, and didn't care what damage they caused.

You really mean if a lot more people had believed the lies.... We would be in a much worse position than we are now.

 

[Doggit]

Your posts in another thread would seem to prove you did and still are falling for lies

So you're happy to call me a liar then. I was well aware from the start that we didn't send £350m to the EU; there was enough info to disprove the figures, but I never bothered to work out whether we sent the money, and then got the rebate, or it was precalculated. In the end, the figures were obviously wrong, and not worth the effort of investigating further. But it was also obvious that the Remainers were lying about what was being portrayed, as Gove, Johnson and Giessala Stewart all said that if we didn't have to send the money, to the EU, then we "could" spend the money on the NHS, not that they would. The Remainers also discredited themselves by not accepting that it wasn't Gove, Jonhson or Stewarts right to say what the saved money could be spent on, and refused to accept that it's only the chancellor that would have made that decision after we had left the EU, and not the day after the referendum.

Neither side came out of the debate well, and both showed a complete lack of honesty, but I don't think that I have.

 

[Notch7]

What a pity the brexiteers, and the cons, and you, never told us what position they wanted to end up in.

Perhaps it was this one, and Buffoon, Pob and Smith were just trying to deceive the voters.

If they'd wanted to maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union they could have achieved it with a great deal less senseless fuss and bother by staying in.

What a pity labour had no clue either. At the last election, both Tory and Labour had virtually the same Brexit policy.

 

[Notch7]

If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times, we voted to get out, end of, that all, nothing more. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be getting that, but we didn't fall for the lies, nor for £350m, and yes, everything else was undecided and uncommitted. If a lot more people had accepted the concept that the referendum was won by the Brexiteers, and that meant democracy should be respected, then we wouldn't be in this mess now, so this is really the fault of the Remoaners that wanted to sabotage things, and didn't care what damage they caused.

Yes but JohnD loves to quote the red bus, it suits his continual dishonest debating narrative.

It goes like this:
Everybody that voted Brexit must have believed the red bus
The red bus with £350M was found to be not the net amount so was therefore untrue
On that basis JohnD is using the fallacious argunent that everybody that voted Brexit is a liar.

And he repeats it constantly, has done for months. He uses the same bad debating technique frequently for any of his left wing rhetoric whines.

JohnD isnt interested in any intelligent discussion or listening to any other point of view. Quite what he hopes to achieve by I dont know, theres no attempt at pursuasive arguments so theres no chance of converting anybodys view, just likely to make them more entrenched.

A thoroughly mean spirited individual

 

[Doggit]

I know, totally perplexing. He's obviously an intelligent, and then ruins it by being so intransigent. I've learnt a lot from him, and changed a few viewpoints, but he can't see that, and just keeps repeating the same comments time and time again. And one post after another with no breather for anyone else; what's that all about????????????

Still, at least he's not a bully and a troll like Wannabe, so I'll take a breather from him, and maybe join in again later. He certainly makes you learn patience though, doesn't he.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

I know, totally perplexing. He's obviously an intelligent, and then ruins it by being so intransigent. I've learnt a lot from him, and changed a few viewpoints, but he can't see that, and just keeps repeating the same comments time and time again. And one post after another with no breather for anyone else; what's that all about????????????

Still, at least he's not a bully and a troll like Wannabe, so I'll take a breather from him, and maybe join in again later. He certainly makes you learn patience though, doesn't he.

How about answering his reasonable questions in the other thread?
Thanks for the compliment by the way.
How about providing the evidence to support your false allegation, while you are at it.
I know you cannot, so you choose to ignore the difficult questions, just like you choose to ignore John's questions.

 

[JohnD]

Everybody that voted Brexit must have believed the red bus

It will be interesting to see if you can find any evidence to support that allegation.

Even 2% of the voters would have been enough.

The Brexit campaign organisers say they wouldn't have won without the false claim.